Rıza Doruk Ercan on 15,000 martech tools and agentic commerce

In Germany, for example, people are still getting things like that. For example, a document stating that your bank account was accessed from a different IP address is sent to your home manually. You know, like, if you're coming every few days, maybe 12 days or so, they've emptied your account. It shouldn't be vacated in 12 days. What I really wanted to say about this John Wick thing. There's a character in the last movie, if I remember correctly, the fourth one .

The character who is John Wick's enemy says this. He has a very beautiful quote. My father says, "However you do one thing, you'll do everything that way." He says it's a problem. H. Now, I think this also answers the question you just asked about Grow. Greetings everyone. Welcome to the new episode of our podcast . Our guest this week is Rıza Duruk Ercan. Hello. How are you?

Hello. Hello. I'm fine, thank you very much . How are you all? Honestly, this is our first physical podcast too. By the way, I'm Berkay and I've been making podcasts for all these years. This is the first time I've seen them face to face. Something strange happened. So if many people said "sevur" (a Turkish expression of affection), thank you so much for participating. I didn't know where to look.

So which camera should I look at now? It's a bit... well, it has to be that way . Let me turn around. Welcome. Those who don't consent, especially, appear a lot in things like LinkedIn, in posts . Both his consultancy in the MARTEK field and his consultancy in the technology field. If you can briefly describe yourself like this, it would actually help those who don't know you .

Actually, I'm not a very active LinkedIn user . I try to create content at regular intervals. I write articles for various publications, and so on. I make guest appearances on some video content, but I don't have a video content series or anything like that that I directly produce myself . So, those who follow me are mostly my close circle or friends and acquaintances within my ecosystem. I'm actually interested in a field of marketing technology .

As for that, I usually create content, if I'm interested in it, of course . When we talk about marketing technology, it sometimes doesn't quite make sense to people. It has a global equivalent as a marketing technology . It's abbreviated as Martech. Just like Financial Technology is abbreviated as fintech. I actually have a bit of a performance marketing background myself. My interest in this field also stemmed from this .

Because actually, I look at it this way, and I explain the technology in marketing a bit using an ambulance analogy. Because the operations within marketing are predominantly commercial, it's like a patient losing blood very quickly, and there are points where they need technology, just as they need an ambulance . Therefore, if a marketer is even slightly curious, they can inevitably develop their skills in the field of marketing technology .

So, you don't need to have a technology background or be from a technology department for this . But it's also possible for someone with a technology background to move into this field by developing their business skills a bit more . Therefore, I don't use that term in this field, for example. I'm not saying this because I'm an expert, of course. I've always been curious. Because technology is changing too.

I don't adopt a tool-focused approach to expertise. I'm taking a more tool-agnostic approach. In previous years, content creators or specialists in these fields generally shared their expertise using a few specific tools, creating an analytics expert – the term "Martin" wasn't widely used back then. Generally, they were called analytics specialists, or something with a title like Google Analytics specialist, or Google Analyst specialist. Absolutely. So, for example, few people in the industry used Adobe's analytics; in fact, there were periods when it was ignored because the transition from one thing to another was difficult due to the user interface .

So there was such a dominance of certain tools in the sector, and studies also show that. Regarding the numbers for Garts, while there were roughly 8090 tools around 2010, today, as we'll inevitably touch upon with Agent Ki in a moment, it's said that there are currently around 15,000 tools. It's impossible to be a specialized expert in each of these things. So each of them may require separate areas of expertise.

And now, I think that these types of tools, whether they are running the commercial operations themselves, have their own customer success teams, or if they have outsourced this operation, the expertise of the outsourced teams already trains you in terms of screen-related and user-related skills . This is no longer a barrier . So there shouldn't be any barriers. According to sources, it passes between the barriers. So when you sell a tool, when you sell a SaaS platform, there's an adaptation period for it .

Yes, onboarding and adaptation requires a significant effort. But this should n't be a barrier anymore. Because I think this is also a perceptual barrier. So, it's also a perceptual barrier stemming from the users. Remember how we were using the X tool? Now we move on to tool A Y. Rather than focusing on how difficult it is, it's more important to focus on the dynamics of the tool and what it's used for .

In this vast ocean of 15,000 or 1,000 tools, the key is knowing where and how to use them, being able to identify your needs, and clearly articulate those needs. After that, and at that point, it's important to know exactly where and how to address which tool . I can say that I've also somewhat transformed this into a consulting service over the years. I think this is a pretty critical service, by the way.

Because, for example, it doesn't happen very often in writing. In software development, for example, everyone has a stack. I use these tools. That's actually true in marketing as well. So, a marketer actually has a marketing stack, and yes. When you look at it, it gets involved on quite a few platforms . In fact, as you said, I was a performance marketer. It seems like titles have n't become so specific and niche anymore.

So, what was there before? There were SEO specialists, market performance marketers, content developers, and so on . They all had separate things they used , tools. Now, as a marketer, you actually need to address all of them. Absolutely. And that's not a small number of tools; I think the average marketer uses something close to that number. Absolutely. That's why the concept of growth has gained strength over the years.

Everyone started to take a more holistic view. huh. And I usually bring up that change in my one-on-one conversations or training sessions . Older, traditional marketing had a bit more of a silo system. So, let's not just talk about silos or functions within the marketing department. Conflicts of interest can exist even between departments . This is also somewhat related to one of the philosophies I like in industrial engineering: finding that optimal balance.

So, in a world where conflicts of interest lead everyone to maximize their own benefit, you're bound to fail, whether you like it or not. But in growth, holistically speaking, not everyone's goal is to maximize their own self-interest. Since the holistic, cumulative aspect here is about maximizing the project or company's benefit—whatever you want to call it— everyone, including SEO professionals, those with stronger SEO skills, are prioritizing organic growth.

Someone with a background in performance marketing might be able to uncover the optimization within the PID (Process Identification Number) framework a bit better . So, someone with a background in technology is more focused on how marketing technology tools can be better adapted, how to maximize commercial benefit, and they're not arguing with things like "I didn't get this need from you," but rather fixing it. The technician there checked and maybe they installed it incorrectly or something.

Exactly. It's not like it's been set up incorrectly, but rather it's moving towards an environment where quick action can be taken to truly be part of the solution. It is also necessary that the gaming industry, in my opinion, is one of the pioneers in this transformation of growth culture in Türkiye . Therefore, when you look at it, we're distancing ourselves from that a little more. So it's a bit more dynamic than just a conflict of interests between silos.

Everyone has put their strongest muscle on the table, but we're moving towards an environment where they can also think like the others . So I think we've entered a really good era where product developers can think more commercially, marketers can think more experience-oriented, and then, or more technology-oriented. Of course, there are companies that can't do that . It's partly related to the culture, but we also see that those who do it are very successful.

Okay, let me ask you something. I didn't know you were a performance graduate. I don't even know when I was last this involved in performance marketing . Do you see that thing? Do you see the difference? So, what differences do you see between performance marketing when you were doing it and performance marketing now ? I see. I'm also part of that change, and I see it as I learn more about this job.

Because I was very actively involved in performance marketing and banking, especially between the years 16219 . I was in the industry. I discussed these matters with Akbank and Denizbank . And this is where the following comes into play. So we shouldn't forget that. Measurement is one of the most important components of performance marketing. If the muscles involved in the measurement are weak, you need to find a solution here .

So you can't make any excuses whatsoever. Because you can't make excuses and you have to be part of the solution, something like this comes into play . So, the question is, how is the data on the front end being measured, how is the data on the backend being measured, is the front-end data communicating with the data on the backend in the CRM ? This brings with it problems such as whether there is harmony between the two .

The difference between install and download is something the industry doesn't understand at certain points. So, back then, that was really the case. There were significant definitional differences. For example, the store collects data from two stands. He comes and says, " The installation you measured is different." But you've installed Adjust or an MMP toolkit. There might be slight differences between the install definition here and the install definition there.

Adjust doesn't have a series or anything like that here. No joke. It could actually be for something or other. So that data rep, industry-wise, had started to become something else after a certain point. For example, your store measured 2, but my conversion measured 5. If that data difference is, for example, 10%, it might be acceptable or tolerable in that sectoral dynamic, but now, in a way that's also related to the point you mentioned earlier, people are taking a multifaceted, holistic approach to growth, so they can't just focus on their conversions or their sales and ignore the rest .

Because technology is evolving on the one hand. So you can't keep up with the AI, you can't keep up with the agents. And now we say SEO is done, and then something else comes along . And you can instantly track the transformations you're bringing from these sources. It needs to be clear. And here, too, the actions taken here really become valuable . Definitely. So, here, starting from performance marketing, it's important to explain how urgent learning marketing technology was, considering the conditions of that era, as you said.

So, because he's not selling the argument, the " I brought this up from here, whatever happened, happened" argument. You need to thoroughly analyze whether it can actually translate into a sale, and if it can't, what the underlying reasons are. Because there's this conflict stemming from the time when those silos were around... It's always the inability to pinpoint the exact root cause. So sales or approval rates can be low.

Well, you know, especially in banking, if you're targeting a need money clientele, there are approval processes for loans and credit cards. Approval rates can vary in these areas. A product manager there might say this. They had targeted the wrong audience. Yes. This still exists, by the way. So, we still sometimes see this in things, for example, when we go into a meeting. Especially in large organizations like banks, there are often multiple marketing teams.

So it's not a marketing team either. And it's a reciprocal relationship, but you haven't measured it correctly, but the Lead Gen page is really bad. That's why the incoming traffic is turning back, and so on. Unfortunately, we still hear people saying that it really still exists, that the analytical theorists haven't really formulated it correctly. Of course, there are people who say that when they look at it from an experience-based perspective .

Look, the page is n't right, it's a design flaw or something, but actually, finding the root cause is what matters here: the measurement is key. Of course. So, as he noticed the gaps in these areas, he started to focus on them a bit more. But what I actually have is that growth muscle, or maybe its fuse, like in Marvel, you know, that mutant muscle that needs to develop with a shock, but actually those mutant cells exist.

So you only need one thing. Yes to the reaction. A reaction is needed . So, it usually comes into play in a life-or-death situation or something like that. And greetings to the geeks from here! So, are you a Marvel fan? DC Marvel. Exactly. I don't know which one Marvel chose, but think of it like this... DC, Batman, Superman, and Marvel, a little more... Yes. Like, the Avengers, the X-Men, Spider-Man, exactly .

They've been stronger lately, they've definitely been stronger lately. Exactly. In a cinema, along with what happens in the cinema, so within that ecosystem, let's say I myself observed that growth mutation . Meanwhile, I still think it's something that's really needed. For example, we do n't have such a thing or task in this sector. So, if there are any who don't know, we have a tool called Hardal, maybe there are some who don't know about it right now.

If anyone doesn't know, please write in the comments. Let's ban the comments immediately. For example, we don't exactly have that as our job, but we're so involved in data measurement that we inevitably find ourselves giving recommendations – I won't call it consulting because that's much more complex, but it's web marketing – like, " Use this MMP," or "Which MMP should you use?" or "Adjust this," or "There's this and that," and so on.

We find ourselves making those kinds of recommendations because, as you said, everyone comes from somewhere else, and SOG is really lacking in terms of performance. Sometimes, they even enter the world of product marketing in completely unexpected ways. The world of product marketing involves many different tools and skills. So, the guy has been using Google Analytics his whole life. For example, in the company he suddenly joined, there's a mixing panel, he thinks it's the same thing, but it's actually not the same tool at all.

Even though there are places with very similar capabilities, we inevitably find ourselves caught up in it all. And I think these kinds of specializations will continue to increase in the future. We, for example, are currently in the recruitment process. As you said, we're trying to hire a growler. So, he's a grow specialist, not a marketer. Growçu, let's put the link to the ad right below. The job posting is quite challenging.

Really, someone who knows everything well, yes. So, people who are like a Swiss Army knife are difficult to deal with. We created this holistic structure by assuming everyone is like us; ultimately, we are writing and selling a tool that supports those who do growth and marketing . But while doing that, we also need to be doing marketing and growth. Now, from that holistic perspective, everyone knows every tool, for example.

For example, I liked that tool-agnostic perspective . Because now it's moving to a certain place. I'm using tool X, but tool Y's interface is very complicated, I don't know about that. It's like, if you have a driver's license, you can drive that car too, and you can drive this car too. But it's like saying, for example, that I know how to drive a Mercedes . So you need to understand that logic.

You need to know the rules. So, this is essentially the industry. And we included a case study in the job postings, specifically in that growth manager position. This is what we are trying to see in the case study. So, they need SEO knowledge, paid marketing knowledge, technical knowledge, and even a little knowledge of HDMI and JavaScript – they need to be very versatile. Those who saw Casei ran away, or rather, a few people canceled Casei as soon as they saw it.

He probably thought, "I can't handle such a multifaceted job ." Exactly, a bit like that. What do you think about it? So, it could be a good thing, or it could be a bad thing, but we're trying anyway. Very good. so, a one-sided expertise, maybe a bit more business-level expertise there. This is a person with high soft skills. So, when we look at parameters during the hiring process, one of them is the child, for example.

Yes. But I think there's nothing wrong with being versatile . Well, it's actually a bit about how you do the job . and which movie was it in? What was Kenor Reis's last film ? Matrix. Not the Matrix. John Wick. John Wick. John Wick. That's a good joke. And then... that's what happened . He quit after that. Yes. He quit after that. He quit especially after Matrix 4.

Of course. He says 99, bro. I like a lot. Matrix 4 was bad though. Did she watch it? Oh, I really liked it! For me, it's something from Matrix 1 3 1, man. Yes, that's true, but I'm ignoring the 4 d 4 part . Sracki was very good though. SK S will shift to that topic, but I think those kinds of films create very high expectations. And reaching them becomes very difficult after a certain point, so we have to accept that.

Yes. Because there's also something else. You probably remember some things about the first Matrix films, right? The feelings you had back then, and maybe it was the era, the rate of consumption, etc., versus looking at today, I think it's really hard to like it. It 's like a reboot of something, or the very last one, or something like that. And then there's the late 90s, which was the prime time for cinema there.

Yes. Yes. So, if you look back at cinema, the really good films always came out between 1999 and 2000. That's absolutely true. That's very interesting. I really like the period before 2000. I even look at things from before 2000 when I'm filtering . It's like something happened and things changed. It's like something happened and things changed. So, with these video platforms, these streaming platforms, the math of the game has changed a bit.

This new Matrix was somewhat consistent with that kind of mathematics . Maybe that's why. His biggest problem is the math involved. So I think that in a film that's considered art, you shouldn't be doing so much math. That's how most of the content we have today is. In fact, things like this are filmed, for example. For example, it exists in music as well. They're definitely trying to make a part of the music video or song TikTokable so that people will do a dance to that goat.

They even put that dance in the music video so that it will become a hit . So things shouldn't be like this . When they were digitizing Netrix, maybe we got some inspiration from the Matrix, like the colors and all that . Meanwhile, our rate of change is quite good. So I'll connect Grow back to John Wick again. We'll tie Wicken. on Netflix, they measure things like which cover you're watching, for example, it's obvious now, like which cover you're watching, or it's the same movie, the same series, but when you watch it, the cover of, say, Friends changes on the interface.

For example, if you're more into masculine things, like Joey from Friends, appears directly in the cover, but if a woman is watching, the Phibi character appears in the cover. That's what they measure with those EU tests, but they also measure... I realized it later. So, since the devices they're watching on are mostly phones and from phones, they've started paying less attention to light or sound in the film.

Yes. It's so cinematic. Exactly. And they put in all that effort, I mean, they save money there, for example. That's very interesting. Definitely. Definitely. Or they look at the drop-of-points and edit accordingly, and so on and so forth. Many scenes, for example, can be easily adapted to other things. Scenes that could be adapted to a vertical format. I hate videos . Just because there's a dickey video .

I don't have Instagram or TikTok accounts, so I don't use social media. So you're something else, you're an exception here. From a tab user's perspective, it's actually true that almost everyone consumes a lot of video in fast mode. That's why, for example, you watch old TV series. For example, I don't watch shows like that, so I just sat down and started watching The Sopranos . Is it upright?

I'm watching everything intently, of course, and I can only see the center of the scene, but I can't see any of the characters. My phone is so slow, like this one, the tempo is very low, like right now. I think it's impossible for a brain that regularly consumes TikTok to sit down and watch The Sopranos, because its attention would be distracted 150 times while watching. Of course, you need some kind of Indian barber who can style your hair like that, right?

Something like that happening . Oh, so something's going to happen right away, in between all this . Otherwise, their attention spans naturally decrease along with the viewing. Their attention spans also decrease together. Absolutely, of course. After that, what I really wanted to say was something related to John Wick. There's a character in the last movie, if I remember correctly, the fourth one. The character who is John Wick's enemy says this.

He has a very beautiful quote . My father says, "However you do one thing, you'll do everything that way." He says it's a problem. H. Now, I think this also answers the question you just asked about our growt. So, okay. You specialize in SEO. This is your strongest November. So that's the 20- meter-deep hole. Now, there's that analogy, you know, about whether you want 20 holes that are 20 cm deep or one hole that's 20 meters deep .

That's the 20-meter-deep hole here . But how you dig that hole is important. Now, as you dig that hole, you develop your own learning intent at certain points. huh. Now, as you delve deeper into the subject matter, since marketing inevitably involves interdisciplinary fields, you end up entering different areas as well. This involves psychology . This includes sociology. This includes the economy. Then there's game theory involved in all of that.

So, if you combine good SEO with good game knowledge, the mathematics and game plan you devise here will be different. Someone who learns game theory can also apply it to different areas; for example, within performance marketing, if they are running a search ad, they can develop different game plans behind that search ad . Of course, when you look at it this way, the key to that deepening of learning is actually how they learned, how they developed their will to learn, and how enthusiastic they actually are .

That's my enemy, I think . Yes. Because, for example, there are people searching right now , people searching. You could say something there too. You could say, for example, "Offer 30% off on watches." You could actually sit down and put some thought into it and add some interesting copywriting. So, that performance marketer is the one who makes the ads, yes. It depends on how much you want to think about this topic.

For example, that also seems very illogical to me. I'm the advertiser, so I'm interested in the payload. This is my area of expertise. I don't think there's any chance you could say something like "I don't understand design." So if you're already running ads on Meta, for example, then yes. You have to think about this. You have to. But as you said, many people have dug that hole, but so much data has been unearthed in some way.

Yes. Yes. The design aspect, the game theory aspect, the copywriting aspect—none of it happens. Absolutely, as you said, when that happens, he can't really climb out of that hole and dig something else next to it . When someone says "I don't know" and gets out of it, it's actually very related to things like, for example, they need to know about money and finance, how to manage the budget for the digital market?

How will it move? If you have $100,000, and you decide to invest $0.000 somewhere, what criteria will you use to make that decision? And these are all parallel soft skills. That's why you shouldn't be communicating with that finance department . Hey brother, what's our budget for this month? So what is our goal? Who do we sell to ? Look, from there, he'll go to the marketer, he'll do something.

So, what we actually mean by versatility is this, but from the ads, or especially, let's not say, but something new, like, " my job is just this," for example, " I'm a page designer, I do design," close to silos, I mean, it's sad that it's close to that silo mentality. By the way, we were talking to e-commerce teams for a while, and there was a project that we were both very excited about.

At its core, the project does this: when you measure return on investment, it allows you to do it based on profit and expenditure, not expenditure, but since profit information is actually confidential in companies, it allows you to send this information to platforms in a completely secure hash way, and for example, it allows you to create a system that optimizes Google Ads product ads in this way, server-side.

Hi. Of course, in the early days, we used to explain things like, " Look, you can do something like this," and so on. We received the same answer from so many places: we're not interested in profitability. Unbelievable. We're like, how can you say something like that? I mean, we're the marketing team. Yes. Marketing, for example, doesn't concern us. But this is not one of them. So you need to look at this aspect of the business, maybe to move it to the next stage, or you should use return rates as a parameter so that the business can reach the next level.

But like you said, there are a lot of them . So, this place isn't mine, it's not his. Yes. Since you mentioned server-side tracking, for example, why is this a necessity? What developments triggered this, what is it referenced in? This is where you learn, through this in-depth study, that you need to at least open and read about things like the personal data protection law and other serious matters.

Because, for example, in my own personal journey, I realized that I needed to research certain aspects of both the Turkish Personal Data Protection Law (KVKK) and the GDPR, and accordingly, we aligned certain designs and actions in our work . Now it's very easy. It's very easy to just ask someone who knows, but asking someone who knows with some prior knowledge can also guide them. Because even those who know do n't have information about your domain, it's natural that your transfer of information there becomes healthier at this point.

So, I want to emphasize this point to avoid any misunderstanding. I certainly respect specialization, but I've realized that in acquiring that specialization, one inevitably needs to research the bits of knowledge coming from those interdisciplinary fields, to at least dig a 20 cm hole in that area . Therefore, I've always had this concern. So, I've always had, and still have, a concern about investing my time, and if necessary, financially through training or perhaps networking with experts in those fields to improve my expertise.

That concern still exists. Therefore, I think it needs to be preserved. So, someone who is inclined towards that growth philosophy we just mentioned, and perhaps even someone within this culture you've acquired, will start another business within this field, maybe even spin it off. Exactly. So, there are potentials like that . Absolutely, learning from each other is our biggest motivation; it's not about hiring people and acting like bosses or telling them to work hard and do whatever you want .

Doing things together and learning something from them as well . So the other side will come with their own network, their own noh pub , their own way of eating yogurt, and it will blend with our culture and something will emerge. Growth definitely happens this way. Absolutely. But I mean, when I take it and tell them step by step what to do in the scenario, it's like they can already do it themselves.

That kind of thing is n't usually sustainable. I also think that kind of approach makes Agent HCK a top risk group in AI transformation. Yes. The parts that ask, "Will artificial intelligence take our jobs?" Exactly. We can say that this group is in the highest risk group, at the first degree. Because, you know, there's this saying in the agent world or the AI world, like, big elephants are trampling around and the only thing you can do is try to guess where that elephant won't step.

Because, by chance, your area of expertise is where that elephant is going to step, and it steps on it and destroys your entire industry . There's a movie like that too, by the way. Were the elephants and the grass? Elephants and grass. Mice. Fler and grass. I don't know. Turkish film. Turkish film. Turkish film. I forgot the director. Aluk Bine plays some kind of game. It's a pretty good movie.

It's a really good movie. No movie. Painful viewing. Do you have a cinephile side? No. I quit after 2000. Berkay has had something like that since 2000. The past is very dominant. For example, Turkish TV series, and so on . Sometimes he plays a joke on the team. For example, he's quoting a line from a TV series. Maybe. But that kind of series... it ended on TRT1 in '95 or something like that.

Well, nobody understands. The guy in the crew is a Czer, you know, the kind of guy who's all over the place, the kind who's stuck in the middle of things, like in old TV shows and stuff. That's why something like that is happening there. The silence of the grasshoppers is something that the Jenz members of the team never had anyway. Sometimes I miss some jokes too, but I really love them, you know, like to unwind or something.

For example, there's TRT Nostalgia on YouTube. TRT Archive and similar organizations are showing full episodes of very old series. I really like those old opening credits. And also, in terms of visual restoration, of course, not with any burrs or anything like that. It's beautiful, and also, you know how we talked about mathematics earlier, that tranquility is beautiful, that transformation is very beautiful, the house is beautiful, and it's actually long, but it doesn't have a specific length, that situation...

Yes. They don't stop there to explain the comedy or the situation; they really stop there to show the reality. Now, I wonder if that attention deficit disorder existed in previous generations ? No, they're like, they're watching something while sorting beans, or something like that. Maybe something like that has an effect. By the way, there's also television, and there aren't that many options on television, you know. For example, right now, many people's biggest problem is that there are only 6 streaming platforms, and each has hundreds of things on it.

I've got 6, but which one am I going to watch? For example, they end up watching Friends again. Because it's safe, safe, meaning they don't know the other one or something. What was it like before? There was a system where they would show something like "European Side" on Wednesdays, so you would sit and watch it. You know, there are four channels. There were four series on four channels, and they generally didn't even pit the highest-rated series against each other.

That day everyone was watching him, sitting there, and the next day you'd go to work, go to school, and you'd be talking about him. You were talking about him. It's over, so that's the system, you do n't have any other choice. There was a brave heart. The next day everyone said, " Of course, of course." Similar to the Valley of the Village, the advantage is that everyone probably thinks it's the newest version, like Game of Thrones, which everyone talks about the next day.

I've never watched it, not at all. I stopped watching after the Game of Thrones team, so I didn't catch it after the first episode. I don't have many of those new generation series either. I've watched a few episodes, and I think their flow and everything is close to the old math, like Game of Thrones. It's not like schools are very new, it's not new. Yes, if you try to watch it, you might get bored; it has very long, slow episodes.

So this new generation is n't like the math involved in Netflix and other platforms. Because right now, the streaming on Prime's own productions, Netflix's own productions, Amazon Prime, etc., is very similar. Yes. Yes. For example, like I mentioned The Matrix earlier, that's the reason. It was actually filmed for HBO Max, with the support of HBO Max. And actually, it was filmed using the same mathematical formula again .

That ticking sound, that ticking sound, there's a very fast flow. In fact, I think this is... let's call it the new generation of viewers. It's not just JNZ, there's also an audience that has adapted to it. Including baby boomers. Of course, there are also many baby boomers who have adapted to this. There are also those from Generation Y and Xene who have adapted to this . Perhaps the Baby Boomer group is a smaller audience, etc. If there's any research already done on this, we should examine it.

So there's also this aspect to consider there. For example, you opened a movie on a Mub. In the style of an art film, a Spanish film, or a French film. Now, for this audience, this also seems slow at a certain point . Also, some films... now, in storytelling, remember that in literature, not every story, not everything we read or every tale told, has to be based on an event .

It could be a situational story, or it could be a situational film. Exactly. For example, watch a movie like this. The question is, what happened to the person there? No, nothing happened. He says the man is sitting. That's actually the situation there now. For the director, every sequence in the room where that man is located is important. They come empty-handed, I mean, they evaluate it superficially, and then the viewer gets up and goes to L or something like that .

Go wash the dishes. What kind of movie would you say it is ? Nothing happens in the film. Yes. For example, those films that are completely... well, I think... nothing at all are actually quite good, like a slice of life. But if someone were to really ask, what was the highlight of this movie ? No, I mean, the man talked to his child. For example, you're watching Tab's relationship with his child.

So when something happens, it really becomes a huge deal. For example, look at TV series. For example, I sometimes get exposed to certain Turkish TV series . I'm not a direct viewer myself, but you're exposed to it; so much changes in a few years, and so many big events can happen, that it affects a normal person in a normal life. Yes. Now, these are truly traumatic things in the life of a normal person .

So, it's very difficult to get over this. So, so-and-so killed him with a bomb. The other one was shot with a different weapon. I don't know, they're able to quickly leverage very traumatic events and move on with their lives . That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's why the audience always wants something new to happen. Something more should be added, something like, "Let's have one more thing like this, one more thing like that."

Thankfully, there's still plenty of content to enjoy from the old days . Whether you like the character or not, he was obsessed with HKOK movies, for example . Alfred Hkok? Yes. There are birds in that thing. Yes. Hey bro, our HKOK. Prime is pretty good in that regard. It might sound like we're advertising, but you can actually access many of these old movies. There was a time when we were actually watching those period films regularly, and you see a lot of them.

So when you see how much later films were inspired by them, etc., you definitely think, "Is there a reference there that I never caught before?" You know how they say, "Oh, this film is talking about this," and you find yourself with something you've never seen before? Exactly. Exactly. We will continue to consume it as well. That's why it's useful to see the fundamental basis . Watching films from that era is also beneficial in that sense.

It also affects our perspective on the present. Definitely. Of course they provide references. If we go back to that AI agent topic, where do you think it's headed? Especially, for example, on the mobile side, and also, luckily for this summit, they've been doing it online for the last year. I have now submitted this year's record as well . You're essentially registering in advance . They're broadcasting it there.

It'll be released sometime in May, the day I wake up at 5 am. It's an organization I love very much, too . It's really, really good, I mean, its... thing is really good. Now, today's lineups included Simo and others . I woke up at 5 this morning . I took the picture and saved it like this. I talked about agents, specifically how we measure AI agents .

Because that's a very big title, by the way. So there's a concerned group of people wondering where Analytics is headed. Of course, there is a group of people right now who say that the field will be completely destroyed What do you think? So, first of all, we'll see, of course, but I'm one of those who thinks a pivot is highly likely . huh. What I mean by pivoting is essentially that we've reached a point where websites and apps wo n't be necessary anymore.

Now, the question arises: what will happen to the sites on the web and the sites on the app? Hi. The reason is this, and for those who don't know, it might be useful to briefly explain a part of it. Now, with these developments, platforms like Chat, GPT, and Gmin have explained Agentic Commerce protocols, universal agentic commerce protocols, and so on . Mastercard and Visa have similarly explained agent-to-agent protocols, which are more like KYC (Key Card Management) style, similar to "no customer" protocols.

Now, what is this actually a preparation for, or what are Google's agent-agent protocols a preparation for? So, this shows that we are entering a realm where agency work is a commercial structure. And finally, it's worth mentioning this Walmart development as well . Now, towards the end of last year, Walmart did something. It has integrated with Chipit. they also received payment via Stripe. After that, Walmart generated very significant revenue from it.

But another problem arose. Walmart had seen this, Amazon had seen this a little earlier, according to Walmart. Amazon had said that. They also call them harness agents. I also call them gatekeeper agents. It's a bit of a matter of definition, I'm talking about my own area, my own domain, and you can make this area an MCP, meaning you can take your product catalog and, let's say, an MCP server that an agent can dig into, but he said he doesn't allow direct GPT chat here .

There are actually two things here. One of them is concerns related to security. One of them is their concerns regarding their investment in Tal Media . Because Amazon is very important in retail media. So, one of the most important things in our journey towards the creation of Hardal today is actually based on regulations regarding third-party cookies . Now, at this point, first-party data owners have also started to get a piece of the pie that Google or other companies have lost.

Amazon is one of the first examples of such an adapter, or what we might call an adapted version . Walmart is another company that has invested in this type of venture in America. But they had different approaches to the ChatPT integration . Amazon, I will not accept agents like Chatpt on my own website, on my own domain . "I'll have a harness agent here," he said. So he said he'll be my gatekeeper agent.

If you ask me for something, you delegate it to my agent here, and they continue with the process . In Walmart's workflow, Walmart was directly embedded there. So, it made it possible to directly view and check out the entire product range within the chip . Now, in that flow, Walmart saw this. The first party realized it would lose data . Of course. And then he realized there was a serious risk here.

Both of them were related to security, or at least the part that was reported in the press was mostly about security-related vulnerabilities . So, because while that agent was working there, they saw that he was able to gather different information and make different inferences, and they realized that this posed a risk in both commercial and security terms, so Walmart created a new agent accordingly. This produces an agent that we could call a harness agent, or a gatekeeper agent.

These developments show that we are entering an economic landscape where it will be possible to process checkouts without generating any web or mobile traffic. huh. Within that framework, that's also important. So, the important thing is how the data that the fields have collected over the years can pivot this process. huh. Here, I see that risk combined with an opportunity. For example, Brace has invested in this area.

He established his MCPs. huh. And Bra is slowly moving towards that thing. Context is moving towards a service-based platform . So, the data collected from all these accounts over the years is n't garbage. This data technically appears to be one of the contextual discriminators of the new era . Therefore, I think that reed platforms with a specific history would have an advantage here. They abbreviate it as K, that's all.

If we read it in Turkish, I foresee that there will be a period for "context as a service." And also someone who works in the B2, or business, side. Now, this might not be very well-received by customers right away. So it could take a few years . But of course, I also anticipate that its speed could be somewhat higher depending on how quickly it adapts to other technologies .

I predict it will be around 2030. huh. Personally, on the other hand, we are investing in this a bit faster and moving towards a plane where we are using more agents within our own workflows. I'm also starting to use different tools and agents in my daily life There are agents I made myself. There are agents that my friends created and that I adapted to my own life .

Therefore, I can very clearly say that in terms of assisting me, it made my job easier . Agent- based approaches are just my thing there, I absolutely agree with what you said, by the way. So now, to put it simply, someone can log into GPT chat, do their shopping from Walmart or any other store, buy their product, and leave. So, actually, we're thinking a lot about this here without actually having any contact with the site or application.

So, for example, what happened? There were physical stores. The websites have arrived. The arrival of websites hasn't meant the complete disappearance of physical stores . Traffic has decreased significantly. Then applications came alongside websites. When it comes to applications, most traffic has now shifted to applications, but the web world still exists. Here, I'll refer to this as agentic traffic. Is omnichannel just a new channel, or will it truly completely eliminate web and app integration ?

I mean, I'm talking about the long term. In the short term, this isn't possible anyway, but how much will it destroy? What will happen? We are very curious about this. Because it can also be viewed from this perspective. So, in Omni Channel, because you know that the user came and progressed through you with the Agent, it seems to me that Omni Channel can actually be considered as a new channel.

I agree. I agree. Well, of course, it's very difficult to predict the long term . I completely agree. Because the thing is, the initial adaptation will most likely be more like adapting repetitive purchasing behaviors to this context . It's highly unlikely anyone will go in and buy a car with a spy on it. Exactly. So, for example, at specific intervals, for a specific task, like tracking diapers, or tracking household supplies, with ticket sizes for lower-priced items, and automatically refilling items in the refrigerator when something runs out .

Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. You may remember that the flows were already done, but it didn't really affect people's lives that much. Let me do it a bit more, for example, the Amazon agent, the scripts, the regular sending, it was like normal, you order when it's finished, order when it's finished, exactly like that. So, this is a bit more like the agent being in your life and automating this process.

Automation exists in our lives today, but it seems like we're moving towards a more autonomous level. I think the same way as you do on this point. In fact, in this Omni Channel part you're talking about, people are now imagining that agent in a certain way . In some of the videos I've watched on YouTube, I'm a bit critical of that point . The point is, the agent comes into play because in some experiences, the approach is that the agent will always open the browser or the app.

Agent does n't need that. Of course, being technical is required. He does n't need to come in at all. Y doesn't need to enter at all. So, in that experience, if you've established a good MCP, meaning you've built the infrastructure that it can utilize, the agent can perform the actions it wants. Braz's investment in MCP is n't just due to context. Today's UX is actually becoming somewhat like agent UX .

So we can also assume that made this move to significantly improve the agent's UX (user experience) . Because why? Braze already has its own agents, and it will continue to have them . These platforms will also make their own agent investments. These will also be present in what we might call a harness agent structure . Now you will be able to delegate that agent. It's a structure where he'll go and bring you whatever you want .

Yes. Some people invested in this. And there's also the possibility of something else happening along with it. If you are following the protocol there, then your agent, who is working within that protocol, will also be able to access and dig there . Even in that scenario where it's possible to change things, we're not talking about the UX we're used to anymore. So we're talking about an environment where the agent can move around more freely, where they can easily gather information.

The same experience. I foresee that user experience, which we can call customer side or client side, will also come to the B2C side this time. So, he predicts that we will see this in some way both in our personal lives and in our professional lives, in the SaaS companies we work for, etc. From the customer side, if we consider how these SASs affect the context, I think they can provide a bit more inferential insight.

So, in the past, when a user was searching for something or asking a question in a particular context, I would send a push notification within the app, and they would click on it. These types of message clusters have higher click-through rates. Therefore, if we are going to recommend this brand from this context, it will most likely become a trust point, like we can also recommend this message, given the things SaaS has been keeping in the background, the library, it seems like there's something going on there.

I'm saying this for both sides, both for end- user and for business. But there need to be people with the mindset to directly address this, that is, people who can directly connect this to the previous topic . From a holistic perspective, you know . So, how you approach things at the point where A arrives, that kind of reflects your own perspective. So, for ourselves, yes. We use AI agents to automate things .

Here's what I want: not just daily emails, but a summary of them. Then they tell him to throw this here, and do that like that, and so on. So, it's all like this, inside a computer. Very nerdy. You carry it outside of your computer as well . You can do wonderful things. But I think companies need to create a space to deal with these things like this, huh.

With that R&D, where are we going and what are we doing? Rather than being afraid of artificial intelligence, I think they should address these issues first. Frankly, I don't see things very well in Türkiye . So, compared to the developments here, and also globally, we don't know this information either, by the way. So there's also a bit of exposure involved. You know how things like this happen, we get exposed to these kinds of developments, these cloudbots and all that stuff.

Then you come back and think, there's even a group of people who don't use the internet yet, so it's important to remember that from time to time. In Türkiye, I think it's easier for us to break out of our bubble, so you inevitably see that as less common. But perhaps there's a similarity in Germany too; for example, in Germany, people are still getting this kind of treatment.

For example, a notification that your bank account was accessed from a different IP address is sent to your home manually in an envelope. You know, how many days does it take to arrive? Like 12 days or something? They emptied his account. The account shouldn't be emptied in 12 days; that's a matter of citing immediate sensitivity . Yes. I also want to say something else. I don't know.

We've actually made some minor improvements in this area with Hardal as well Can we say it? What is he doing? Of course, of course. Why should I tell you? I don't know, our guy... well, it's not launched yet, it's a feature and all that . Here, we're trying to focus a lot on that first-party aspect you mentioned earlier . Yes. Your site, well, your site is being crawled by agents, and if you have an MCP (Minimum User Account), the agents are accessing it.

But this could actually be an analytics tool, and you could somehow own this data as well. Absolutely, that's why we're introducing AI visibility features like "track the agents" in certain studies on maintaining first-party data for brands. This is directly related to what I said before, because agents have behaviors that go beyond both our own and the overall UX. Yes. Yes. Besides the actions that are taken, thoughts on what aspects can be improved are also quite valuable.

That's why he does n't really need the website, actually. Yes. It needs to be sending a request for something. The site doesn't necessarily have to be something with HTML and UI CSS . Actually, the name of what we call the website will change. Yes. So, since these are going through requests, through servers, how can we really track them down and determine if they are agents or humans?

Yes. Is it performing human behavior, or is it just clicking and processing quickly as soon as it enters, or is it actually exhibiting human behavior— scrolling, waiting, etc.? The analyses are starting to move in that direction, so that the change on the agent side will be dragged here because it will affect everything. I think it could be 2030, maybe even earlier. Everything can adapt very quickly. I'm looking at my chat messages from two years ago, by the way, and I haven't deleted anything.

My GP background. So the first thing I had done was get a website made . huh. He did a really bad job with the website, but the progress we've made now is incredible. I'm really, really pleased with where we've come from. Yes. And so, the development over these 23 years has actually been an evolution from a more reactive generation and experience to a more proactive, agentic experience.

So this is an interesting journey. I think this is very exciting too. And then there's that other part. So, from a marketing perspective, since you now have a SaaS product, and because I'm investing in these areas, the B2B negotiation business will actually shift towards negotiations between two agents. So, essentially, we're moving into what we call the B2 AI concept. Therefore, in these B2B deals, we will likely step in during the escalation phase, perhaps after negotiations between the two agents.

If you take each other out for dinner or something, like if you go out for raki here... Exactly. So, we can say that a very interesting and exciting period is coming. So, we definitely need to enjoy it, because we're living in a very interesting time. Without too much stress. So, what are they using now? Because sometimes, I think, people get really exhausted. I'll keep an eye on what's going on.

Oh my God, everyone's become a millionaire! Instead of dwelling on why things haven't happened yet, we need to move forward by definitely trying to create value. Definitely cut it. Okay, let me ask one last thing. It seems like the conversation is just flowing along, as we always like to ask questions. We could stay here a few more hours. It was quite enjoyable, by the way. Exactly. So, is there anything that really inspires you?

We talked a lot about people, objects, films, film locations, cities, anything, anything. In general, I see that I've shaped my life a bit more around one concept, which I touched upon earlier: entusism. Should I translate it as being curious, or perhaps as being able to delve deeper with that curiosity? When you focus on a subject, you inevitably think, "What's its history? What are the future expectations related to this subject ?"

How did it get there? You just gave a very good example from Hitchcock. You said something like, I see that today's films actually carry certain themes at some point. I think that's a very good approach. Of course, it's true that we can't have PhDs or specialize in many fields, but it's a journey nonetheless. So, absolutely, I want to be a part of that journey and I'm trying my best to be.

Therefore, I can say that an approach that we could call enthusiastic defines me, for myself and for our own journey. Because I think it's very, very important, and there's something we tend to forget. Oh, oh, it's very, very sad, actually. So we live in such a crazy world that what we're doing right now is pretty absurd when you think about it. TRUE. You couldn't have told that 10 or 15 years ago.

I don't access the GPT chat anyway. Everything gets used to quickly, and that's what's expected. For example, let's say I was flying here and there was Wi-Fi on the plane, and I didn't find it strange. Yes. I was hooked, so I continued. But, you know, when it first happened, I was completely shocked . How can something like this happen? This is the space age and all that nonsense.

So, it's really important not to lose that enthusiasm and curiosity. So, I think things shouldn't be ignored just because we see them very often . That's why it's absolutely, absolutely valuable. Oh wait, we should be grateful. It comes up a lot in stand-up shows and stuff, you know how in American culture it's called white trash or trash white? You know, like, what do they call people who are always complaining about something ?

Karen, the type who's always complaining about things, you know how they offer this argument to those types, like, "That phone in your hand is the invention of the century, and the things you're getting angry about are completely different things, so be a little more grateful," and speaking of servants, it reminds me of you, you're flying, and on social media, for example, they're almost going to kill the guy because he pushed his seat forward, or they're almost going to attack the flight attendant because they were late, and so on .

So, while we're adapting to things faster, it seems like we're also losing out on other things. Of course. So try to prevent this from happening a little bit. You're frustrated today about something that happened yesterday, about a characteristic that entered your life yesterday. So, it's true, but he wasn't even in your life yesterday. So, when you adapted, it became a part of your life, and you've reached a point where you can talk about it.

We really need to preserve and recreate that excitement of the pasture there . Curiosity actually brings many things with it . Well, two people might be watching the same movie . One of them might be wasting their time, squandering it . The other one might be making good use of their time. So how can we be a little more on the side that makes the most of that time ?

Actually, I think that's the question we need to answer. The other type is very easy to consume. Exactly. Definitely. Honestly, that's a great idea. Honestly, that was great. It was a pleasant conversation. I think we can do another one like that. So, it was a lot of fun for me to do it in a physical space for the first time . I suggest we come here and do this from time to time.

Thank you for your visit. That was great. I'll come too, it's an invitation. Thank you too. It was a truly wonderful conversation. Thank you so much to everyone who listened. I don't know why we say thank you, but I guess we look at the camera opposite us and say thank you. Yes, see you then. Goodbye. Thank you very much.