Günce Önür on how a VC fund actually works

In a region where many different nations have come and gone. That's why we have a bit of commerce in our blood. For example, you see it when you go to former Soviet countries . So the men's current characteristic has disappeared. There's even Underline Ventures in Romania. This man exists. His manager is his GP. He has a saying, "In Romania, 30 years ago, before the Soviet era, entrepreneurship was forbidden.

We are now trying to make people do something that was forbidden and punishable ." Looking at it that way, yes, Turkey is not an easy country, but the Turkish entrepreneur is in a very unique position, a very special place in my eyes. Greetings. We are with you again for another episode of our podcast. Our guest today is dear Günce Önür. Hello Günce. How are you? Hi Berkay.

Barış. I'm great. Thank you so much for hosting me. It's a pleasure to be here. We thank you. Let's say, for finding time for us in your busy schedule. How is it always going? How did April start for you? Well, honestly, this will be a classic answer, but you know it's always very busy. Maybe we'll talk in more detail, but venture capital is actually a job where the more you do, the more you do.

You set your own KPIs and goals. So it's always busy. But as you can imagine, due to unexpected, actually both expected and unexpected, events globally, our minds are a little preoccupied these days. So, dealing with both that uncertainty and those risks—although I think it sounds a bit funny to say this to a startup here, because as a startup you manage so much more—it's a bit like that, April is a period.

I think people have gotten over the initial shock wave and are now able to concentrate more on their work. I see that morale and motivation are higher, which is great. I definitely agree. By the way, I think everyone, whether they're a VC or a startup, is dealing with the same crises because they're all businesses at the end of the day. And before I delve into too many topics, we can get to know you a little better.

Who are you? What do you do? What is venture capital? For those who don't know, my whole career has been in early-stage startup investment . I studied chemical engineering at university . I graduated from Istanbul Technical University, but I never worked on the engineering side. I was always on the investment side of the table. I started working directly in the ecosystem. I worked with angel investors in Türkiye.

Then I worked in different funds in Türkiye. In 2019, I met my current partners. You actually know them very well. Startup Vice Guys. They were entering the Turkish market ecosystem in 2019. We clicked there and continued working together. In general, my job is to invest in early-stage startups. I manage a venture capital fund. Actually, it's not just one fund; I'm responsible for and manage different funds. It's not just about investing.

Afterwards, of course, it's also necessary to support those startups and follow their growth. You could say we're in the same boat with them until their companies expire. If there are those among our listeners who are relatively unfamiliar with the concept of VC, or venture capital, they should know that venture capital is actually not a direct translation. It's risk capital. They are investment funds established to invest in early-stage technology startups.

Venture Capital funds. Our job, which we do full-time, is to find good startups, startups with high potential, and invest in them . In terms of strategy, we invest in very early- stage startups . Generally, those that have been established for a year, have reached their first customers, and have a relatively market-fit product. We invest in startups that have solved the customer-side needs we mentioned . We love B2B software and fintech verticals.

I say this, but then I need to say this right away: being an investor is a never-say-never thing. There's no such thing as "I would never invest in this." We've actually made investments that were n't normally within our verticals but were doing very well. So we also look at the side a bit. Sometimes we invest in startups that make hardware or develop physical products . But to save myself by saying 90%, we love E2B software and fintech verticals.

And as Güncel said, our paths with Vise Guys actually crossed about a year and a half ago. It was much earlier . And it's continued since then, with them as our first investor. Yes. I even sent Berkay a message on LinkedIn. Hi Berkay. That message is still there, by the way . I wanted to learn more about Hardal. Could we do a branch together, etc. That's how we met.

It's great, great, great that we met, Gost, great! We haven't ghosted anyone, have we? Honestly, sir. Thank you very much. I took the first step . My suggestion here was exactly that. It's true . You took the first step, but even though we weren't exactly pursuing investment at that time, we were making small contacts and interactions. But your overall approach really impressed us. We really liked it.

I remember the communication you established, the sincerity, the quick action, etc. Like, I'd text Cristal at 8:30 on a Saturday morning, "Are you free for two minutes? I want to ask you something," and she'd say, "Let's call immediately." And suddenly we'd find ourselves making calls at 9:00 in the morning . That was a period when we had a lot of energy. huh. It's been great since then.

Yes. And now you're helping a lot in this round too. Hopefully. Thank you. I'm doing my best, but you're definitely doing the main work . Well, yes. And that's how it should be . I want to add a little something there. Sometimes, I think my investor friends get unnecessarily carried away . They say things like, "We invest in startups and support them like this, we do this, we do that."

Of course, we support them, but I'm not doing the entrepreneurs' work, after all. Ultimately, whatever kind of success story emerges, it's the success of Berkay, Barış, and Hardal's team. Because that's your job. You still own the majority of the company. So, I think how much credit we give ourselves is important. I do n't think investors are the ones who create impossible things from scratch . Have you ever considered being on the other side of things, like starting a startup, for example?

Well, I've thought about it, and on the other hand, being an investor and managing your own fund, especially in what we call a general partner position, is like being an entrepreneur . Because we go to bigger investors, present them with an investment proposal, and raise money from them. We add money to our fund. Then, with that money, we find really good startups and invest in them, support them, and that relationship continues until the exit, until we completely exit the company.

You need to be incredibly proactive on both sides during this process . Of course, there are examples of this in the world. If you are a very successful investor, people come to your door wanting to give you money . But in relatively developing ecosystems like Turkey, or Eastern Europe, or the Baltic countries, these entrepreneurial concepts are very new concepts; they 've been discussed for 10-15 years, and most big investors are only just learning about them.

So we need to go to them and convince them. And of course, the high interest rate period, global events, wars, etc., don't help us at all, as you can imagine. Because at the end of the day, this is a high-risk, high-return business, venture capital investment. So you need to be incredibly proactive there. Just like an entrepreneur. Just as your business idea is a Hardal, our business idea is the investment thesis we've created.

We say, "There are very good startups working in these areas in these countries . We will find them and invest in them," but the job doesn't end with raising the money. Then there's the point of how we actually find those good startups . And you 've experienced this situation yourselves. Good startups actually find money relatively easily, and there's always extra demand . It's not like, "We've raised the money, that's it."

It's work. It's not like, "Okay, we're doing great," or anything like that . You have to find a good startup and then convince them . Like, "Please, take our money, let us enter this round, let us participate in this investment round." So, because of the nature of my work, I feel a bit like an entrepreneur. Because it's BC work, venture capital work. No matter how much you work, I can meet with 5 startups a week.

I'll say, "I 've done my job, but I can also meet with 15 startups a week . That's also doing the job. I can meet with 25 startups, and so on." Actually, because of the nature of the work, I feel like an entrepreneur . At some point, your clients, the people who will provide the money for those sales pitches, might say, " My money is earning interest, I don't want to invest in startups anymore," and you convince them.

Then, to achieve your own goals, you start finding the right startups to allocate that money . Actually, the dynamic here is very similar to our process of creating a product and convincing the other party . Absolutely. And also, my... I've heard the phrase "my money is earning interest" so much in the last two years, and people are right, they really are right. But maybe we can talk about something else.

Why should everyone invest in startups and venture capital funds within their budget ? Of course, the ultimate goal is to make money, but being a startup investor has certain benefits besides making money . For example, they support young, passionate entrepreneurs like you. When they invest in people like you, you introduce them to different environments, networks, and backgrounds . Because you come from completely different networks. When they listen to you, they learn about new technologies and trends from you.

At the end of the day, you know more about this business than anyone else, and there's no chance a normal person on the street knows as much as you do. There are incredible benefits to being a startup investor, both in terms of personal satisfaction and gaining vision, learning about new technologies and trends. That's why I always say, yes, financial return is important, of course, we all want to make money, but on the other hand, it's a very cool job and a very satisfying job.

So, being an investor in startups... No, I agree, absolutely . For example, Berkay and I always talk about everything . We'd like to be on the other side of things at some point in our lives. Because it's really enriching. You get knowledge from the hub, and you also help a team move forward, perhaps to better places. It has a layered aspect. I can say there are benefits, definitely to this world.

Of course, as I said, regarding the financial side of Finish, yes, the risk is high, but there's a correlation there, and the return on that risk can be crazy. Absolutely. High risk means high return in the end. High risk and low return – that's the kind of investment that nobody in the world would do . Of course, as VC funds, when we invest, we create a portfolio.

We don't invest all the money we raise in one or two startups. For example, in my fund, there are over 160 startups that you've invested in, and some of them are doing very well. Some are a bit more mid-level. And some have already closed down. Losing money, closing down a company – that's also part of it. The nature of the business, and psychologically, investors need to be able to manage it.

When I first started, especially when I became a general partner, I was very nervous. I couldn't sleep. I was thinking, "What if we lose money? What if this happens?" But then you get used to the stock. Because some companies perform much better than we expected. They're already giving us 10-15 multiples . Those doing well are covering up the failing ones, when we look at it. So, you mentioned, did you experience that feeling after becoming a general partner?

Like, any unforgettable memories from that period, good or bad? Actually, yes, I don't want to specifically name names here, but let's say... like, let's say... like, a rumor, a gossip... is this that kind of program? Of course, of course. We already set it up that way. Even if you don't say anything, we'll edit it. Like, "What did you say?" Fantastic. Super. Well, at the end of the day, we know the Turkish ecosystem very well.

Since you also come from this ecosystem ... In Türkiye, we have personal... We have a perception problem. I mean, when you reject someone, it's like you've insulted their family, like you've slanded them . How dare you reject me? How could you do something like that? And there's always this: I used to get a lot of messages like, "When we become very successful, you'll read our news on Webrazzi."

I said, "I'm sure you'll be very successful when you see it." But if I see 100 startups, I really need to see at least 100 startups before I can invest in one . Let's say we invest in one. I inevitably miss out on one really good one. This " fear of missing out" is part of our job. You can't catch everything. You can't find all the unicorns.

You'll miss out on a lot of good startups, and you need to come to terms with that. Let's say I invest in one out of 100 startups . I miss out on one. So, let's say 95% of them fail. I can understand why they fail in the first meeting. And I can explain it to people to a certain extent. That's it. Pay attention to these things, I have these risks, you see.

But because the culture of receiving feedback is very weak in this country, I think people don't even read the email after a rejection. It's always like, " This woman is a bad woman because she didn't invest in us. But maybe I can support you in other areas, or we can develop a different relationship ." Nobody pays attention to that . So, let's say there are a lot of startups I missed out on, but looking at it statistically, I was right more than 90% of the time.

So, not investing is not bad at all, I think. Also, entrepreneurship is about learning. People learn entrepreneurship better by doing it. They become more successful. So, there are many of them. I can't give names here unfortunately, but... we didn't invest. They got investments from other people after us . They failed. That's the nature of the business. At the end of the day, we didn't invest. Although very rarely, there are some that are still very successful .

But there are also those we invested in and that made us very happy . So, I think nobody loses at some point . Yes. And me too. I think there's a lot to it, you know, industry expertise is important. For example, when we look at our own business, it's not just Martek, we're in such a niche area of Martek that sometimes we talk to a VC and they see a bigger risk .

We understand that. Because if you don't know the industry very well and you can only get information about the industry by asking third parties, then you're likely to believe whatever you're told . We've often said, "Okay, we understand you. We understand why you're not keen on it. Maybe your opinion will change in the future, we'll talk again." So I think the teams also need to understand, as you said.

You go to a meeting, there's a team that does hardware . Then you go out and meet with the Fintech team. Then you go out and meet with the Green Energy team. Anyway, how much can you really understand all of them, digest them, evaluate the potential, etc.? Oh yes, they've found an incredibly good niche here. At the end of the day, it's clear... Metrics inevitably impose certain things on the issues.

I think that's a bit critical. Actually, that's the good part. For example, rejection is entirely based on this culture of rejection. If none of us were rejected, everyone's businesses would be running smoothly. Someone needs to be rejected for there to be competition. You need to sit down and consider where you could do your job better . But with this kind of anger, you'll see us at Webrazzi.

You know, he's a bit... well, maybe you'll see him at Webrazzi too. This is a very, very bad comment, by the way. If he said something like, "I don't know, a single crunch," that would be fine, but what I mean is, our approach is like this: just like you find customers, your gateway is finding the best startup, ours is finding good customers, so we treat the customer like a jerk.

The customer says, " I'm not buying it," but we don't badmouth them afterwards. You'll see, we'll buy all your competitors. No, we do it like this, in terms of perspective. So, together, from that network, okay, our ideas don't align right now, but maybe we can find someone who can make us align. You can introduce them. Your network is better there, or vice versa, meaning your work is very good.

I don't see potential in your company, but maybe there is another company. So, I think that mutual communication is very valuable, unfortunately. In Türkiye, especially, as you mentioned, FOMO, with AI, gaming, etc., creates stressful FOMO in both WCs and the startup side. I think social media also has an effect. I can't help but touch on social media in every department, but the disagreements there, and the connection you made, I really liked it.

We're definitely on the same page . I absolutely agree. That thing you mentioned, the one where they rejected you, but maybe that customer can support you in another way. The whole point is to be able to get something out of that network . When I was talking to Barış about the investment round, I always said to him, and I say this to other entrepreneurs as well: if there are 400 investment funds in Türkiye, big and small, you don't need to convince all 400 of them.

You need to find 23 among them who will truly believe in you. I need to convince just 23 of them. And think about it, even just reducing that number from 400 to 23 eases the stress level. I just need to convince 23 of them. They really need to believe me. So sometimes, on the customer side, yes, that didn't work, but where could that take you? Let me tell you something .

For example, startup entrepreneurs and founders that we haven't invested in but who maintain a good relationship with me – who occasionally write to me, give me updates, or send me information they see on social media – they stick in my mind more, and I inevitably start directing them to other places. But there are some startups we've invested in. They disappear, especially after the investment. Some disappear because they're doing well, some because they're doing badly.

Whether things are going well or badly, maintain that communication . It's the same on the customer side . They might not buy your product right now. Keep contacting them every three months, or on the investor side, they might not invest right now. Keep contacting them every three months. Nobody says, "Damn it, never write to me again, I don't want to see you anywhere!" RSA, this is a really key sentence.

I think that regular update process should always continue. No, absolutely not. We probably launched this newsletter after receiving investment from Startup Wise Guys. We currently send regular monthly updates to interested VCs, investors, etc. We ate a lot of his bread . So, especially in the second round, we had a lot of contact with people from there, even many who asked, "What are you doing? You're doing another round, what's going on?"

And so on, and it was much more effective than that. I'll go and say hello to everyone individually. We're doing another round . By the way, just so you know, I think this is more effective than saying "Wouldn't you like to come in?" or something like that. I'm wondering about something. So now you are also managing processes in different countries outside of Türkiye . Do you see similarities or specific differences when comparing it to the ecosystem in Türkiye?

There are both similarities and differences. Firstly, this is another characteristic of our culture. We are much closer to burying anything related to Türkiye . So we love the country very much. That's a different matter. I love it too. I know you love it too, but we're the ones who criticize it the most. Sometimes we complain. We want it to be better. Now, when we look at Türkiye, with a population approaching 90 million, our ecosystem is still very small.

So, we see nearly $1 billion in VC investments every year . It should be around 10 billion. In relation to our GDP. According to them, we're still at around 10%. So there's a long way to go. But on the other hand, we are a relatively developed ecosystem that has produced Unicorns and Decacacorns to date, and now has investors who are starting to establish their second and third funds.

So there's no need to be so unfair to us. Now, when I go to different countries, for example the Balkan countries, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, etc., we are far more advanced than all of them. Eastern European countries, as well as the Western Balkan countries, are just getting started . Here are Albania, Serbia, and so on . You're going to Central Asia. Yes, the countries I've mentioned so far are very small in terms of population.

There are countries like Türkiye, with populations of only a few million. For example, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, they might see 10-20 million. You're going a little further into Central Asia. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and others are just getting started. So, ultimately, they started talking about these things 2-3 years ago or so . That's why they're all coming after us. Statistically speaking, if we surpass England, Germany, and France in Europe, we are among the 6th or 7th countries after Belgium.

In that sense, we're doing well, but in terms of our true potential, we need to be ten times bigger again. Hopefully, this ecosystem will grow thanks to initiatives like yours . But we also have some advantages like that. I just can't pass this. I see this very clearly when I work with Turkish entrepreneurs, too. The uncertainties we've experienced until now , the challenges and risks the country has brought, have transformed you—you are truly invincible, amazing entrepreneurs, as strong as iron.

I'm saying this for Turkish entrepreneurs. Because, for example, startups we invest in in Europe give up very quickly. So we invest, and after 6 or 7 months, I get tired. There are a lot of startups that say, "I don't want to do this anymore, I want to quit ." In Türkiye, thankfully, startups are still alive and well. They survive for quite a while and try many times.

They are able to accomplish great things with very little money . So, in terms of capital efficiency, Turkish entrepreneurs are once again quite ahead. And of course, we are a country that is centuries old, and there was trade in the Ottoman Empire as well, and we are in a geography where many different nations have come and gone . That's why we have a bit of commerce in our blood .

For example, you see it when you go to former Soviet countries. So the commercial aspect of the business has disappeared. There's even Underline Ventures in Romania. There is Moldavia. His manager, his GP. He has a saying, "In Romania, 30 years ago, before the Soviet era, entrepreneurship was forbidden. And now we're trying to get people to do something that was forbidden and punishable." Looking at it that way, yes, Turkey is not an easy country, but Turkish entrepreneurs are in a very unique position, in my eyes.

We need to be 10 times bigger again, but let's not deny our merits . We're not doing badly at all, actually, compared to the countries around us. I hadn't looked at that detail from that perspective before, by the way . I really liked it. It seemed interesting. As you said, in Türkiye, everyone does business in some way. People start doing business from childhood. It's really interesting .

I'm also looking at it in terms of time, but there are a few more things we want to ask. It's a very complex topic. It's become a buzzword, but I'm also curious about the AI and artificial intelligence aspect, which is very much on the startup side, and how it reduces the workforce, etc. What about the VC side of things? What do you think? I mean, do you think AI will change anything on the VC side?

Will it find a place? What are your feelings about that? Absolutely. By the way, let me start by saying this: AI entered our lives intensely about two years ago, and I think right now, nobody really knows what they're doing on the investor side. Because nobody can predict what AI will evolve into. Sometimes, some startups have to shut down overnight . Because an update comes along and people say, "Okay, we don't need our startup anymore ."

So, I do n't think investors, including myself, really know what they're investing in or why they're investing. Let me say that from the start. Of course, the big risk still continues for startups. Building something like that is n't the issue. Because, for example, hackathons were very popular 15 years ago when the ecosystem was just starting. Two years ago, I would have said, "Are hackathons still around ?

We've moved past that." Now is the perfect time because you can really get a product within 24 or 48 hours. You can create it, you can create it. So, it's not about making a product anymore. A startup without traction, without revenue, is, in my opinion, a no-go for investment. Because you need to be able to create something and sell it somehow . The really important part is how you're going to grow this business?

Like the marketing, distribution, distribution aspects. And also who will raise the most money , who will collect money from investors . We'll see teams making the same product for a while . Oh, I can't remember the name this morning, but someone copied all the startups that presented at Cominator's demo in one night. Did you see that? Yes. Yes, I saw it too. It's incredible, unbelievable. So, for example, on your side, there's the built-in public approach, building things openly for everyone.

Berkay and I were speakers at an event the other day. He said that everything is open source, everything is open. You can make it, copy it, but nobody can make another Hardal. Because there, it's starting to become your secret sauce, let's say, the culture you've created . It's starting to become the vision there . Likewise, he was seeing that on the startup side as well. And on the investment side, yes.

So, all our operational processes have been greatly simplified by artificial intelligence and these emerging tools . Today, we're talking about when a one-person unicorn company will emerge. It's expected to happen. I think that, by its very nature, large funds will be managed by much smaller, leaner teams . As I said, we also use artificial intelligence in our processes. There's no problem with that. But there's also the issue of confusion about what to invest in.

You constantly need to keep yourself updated. Talk about FOMO, the fear of missing out on a company . We've reached the point where we don't understand which technology yet, it doesn't quite make sense to us, and we'll miss out on it later . So, it's a bit confusing, but it's also very enjoyable because everything is so much more lively and dynamic now. I'm constantly thinking about where the system is going.

I'm constantly working on side projects. I even share some with Barış. Like, "Let's do another one? Could it be a side project? Could it be a product ?" Because I thought about it... You 're creating a product, you do it overnight, but it's AI-powered, or something else, or it could be an AI wrapper. You can give it a fancy name. I'm a little curious about this: in the eyes of VCs, is what we call a product really a digital product that's made overnight or something that takes a long time to develop ?

Or how will systems where physical products are also intertwined go ? Because I imagine it will go in the opposite direction . Right now, 90% of the ecosystem is making a web app. That's basically what we're doing . There's a website, and things go there, but we've focused so much on computers that, for example, there's no startup that will produce a mouse . There's no startup that will produce a keyboard.

Today, everyone is trying to make their own keyboard, for example. Or, I was researching this recently, and I'm very interested in music, like guitar pedals. Could there be an AI-powered guitar pedal ? They've made one. It has 1000 songs in it. It changes the effects according to the characteristics of those 1000 songs and presents them to you, etc. And they've received incredible investment and all that .

How do you see startups with physical products? I'm actually curious about that . Did you see that thing? Maybe they made something for cows. I'll call it a smart collar . Yes, I saw it, I saw it. Yes. I really liked it . I also really want something like that, something physical, but it requires a different skill set, by the way. I mean, the hardware side of things, production, storage, distribution, etc., are very different.

Of course, it's actually a very traditional thing, you have to be producing something. You create a prototype, you make something else, there's a factory involved. How much stock material will you produce, what will the raw materials be ? When you think about that, things like a product that comes out overnight, the digital side, it feels a bit out of the question to me. It's really unimportant. So, creating that culture, creating a culture in that company, might be a more popular area for VCs .

They always say, founders, we're investing, and it seems like this side is a bit more impressive, you know. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. It was going very well. No problem. If you heard our question, keep going, I missed a bit. By the way, Berkay, you were building something and sharing it with Barış. Okay, I'll answer it this way. It's a very good question, by the way, it's kind of turned into this: Now, not just in Türkiye but globally, more investment was being made in businesses that were entirely based on SaaS software .

But with AI, making SaaS is no longer such a unique thing, and normally, hardware startups, deep technology startups, weren't very popular. Because they require larger investments , you have to wait. And it's not clear whether it will happen or not. But thanks to artificial intelligence, software startups are being distracted so quickly, and the competition is so high right now, that I think startups developing hardware or doing something hardware-based have become a bit more attractive.

Because there's an entry barrier in hardware. If you're doing something related to hardware, it's a bit difficult to copy it overnight . Because there's production, different distribution channels, etc. Or deep technology startups, building something using existing AI solutions is okay, but if it's so easily copyable, as an investor... We can't be too positive at that point. That's why startups that develop infrastructure are more important to us.

They're becoming more popular. I can say there's a difference when you look at it. Super. I mean, if we made physical products, it could be a bit more advanced these days. By the way, there's a lot of that too. For example , wellness topics. You know, with these slimming injections, immortality and longevity are now everyone's passion. For example, those areas are very interesting, I think. I want to live a long life.

Don't say that . Don't say that. Everyone wants to live a long life. By the way, my voice is echoing a bit from you . Can you hear it? No, I'm fine right now. It doesn't reach me. So, let's end with a slightly more fun question . In this process, among the events you mentioned, is there a major failure you witnessed or were a part of that you'd like to tell us about?

Like, a major failure according to whom, for example? That's very important . Because we had a company we invested in. I'm never giving names, by the way. Because I don't find it very ethical. But the story is this: it was a startup in Poland. Everyone knows Getir. Think of it as the B2B version of Getir. An app for companies to order and deliver products. It was small, they even had cars and stuff .

Very cute. The business was going very well, but when it came to scaling, they started having problems, and when the monthly revenue exceeded $1 million, that's when the scaling problems started to appear. But the entrepreneur managed the process so professionally that we weren't their only investor. There were other investors, even larger funds than us. They were like, " Where's the problem? Why isn't it working? Where are they stuck?

How can it be done?" In the end, they decided to shut it down. And they made that decision very quickly, and they managed the shutdown process very professionally. That's why I say, yes, I look at the end, there's a, a failure there, but the process went very well. What happened after that is even more interesting, I think. Then the same entrepreneur came to us and said, "I'm going to start another startup.

Invest in me." We said, " Okay, but what are you going to do?" He said, "I don't know what I'm going to do. AI, chat, GPT..." Open AIs are just becoming popular. I'm talking about 2013-23. I guess I'll do something related to artificial intelligence. Okay, but I don't know what you'll do, but I'm currently in an investment round. We would really like you to participate. I mean, investing in an idea is something every investor has probably done once or twice in their life, but investing without an idea was one of those unique experiences that I will always remember .

Yes, right now there's a startup. They're working on something and it's going well. But the message I'm trying to convey is that failure is n't always a complete failure. You see it on social media, too. There are unicorn and exit stories that make you feel terrible, like, "I must be stupid, I can't do it." People are flying high and all that, but we don't know the background.

We don't know what happened, under what conditions they sold the company, for example . So there's also the issue of social media. Yes, it's a very significant part of what we do, unfortunately. On the other hand, we need to prevent it from completely taking over our perception. It's necessary. Otherwise, you can't live like that. You'll live with FOMO. Constant fear of missing out. Constant fear of comparing yourself to others.

I don't think entrepreneurs can be productive or achieve anything with this kind of interest. It's very common among young people. People in universities, during their time at school, try to work in corporate companies, trying to get there, but constantly worry about the country's economic and sociopolitical concerns. The example was great: entrepreneurship was forbidden in a civilization or society. We're trying to adapt to that now, but maybe in 5 or 10 years, with the constant evolution of things, it will create a similar problem.

So, I really think that listening to the VC side in this way, at least not just for young DMs who will listen to this podcast, will be a source of inspiration. I'm 100% sure of it. Absolutely. By the way, it might sound very futuristic, but I don't think people will only have one career anymore . I think every 5 or 10 years, especially the next generation, the young people we call Cenzi, will start a new career.

They will rise. They'll either start a startup, do something else, or they'll go into the corporate world, reach a certain point, leave, and completely change sectors. So we might see things like, "I was an engineer for 10 years . I decided to be a designer for another 10 years . And for another 10 years, I'll be an artist," and so on. There will be many careers like that, and that's a good thing when you look at it.

I agree 1%. It sounds much more realistic than everything you're saying right now. I've been working at Oracle for 40 years, and that's how it used to be, but as I said, it's moving in that direction . Wow, thank you so much, it was a very enjoyable conversation. Thank you. And finally, what you wanted to say for closing: It's really nice talking to you. Should we do this more often?

Let's open Zoom and talk like this. It's really great. I think we've somewhat buried the social media and AI side, but the good thing is that access to information and experience is much easier now. When I first entered the ecosystem in 2013, what you're doing now is very valuable, and things like this never existed before . So there were 3 funds. Maybe 20 people you could talk to, and nobody was really talking about anything, explaining anything.

Because most people did n't even know themselves, etc. Now, it's amazing that there are platforms like this for young people, where they can learn a few things by scratching around. And yes, it's very important for young people to work in corporate environments, but for those with high potential like you, it's also very important for them to get involved in startups for 6 months to a year .

Because they learn so much in a growing startup. Thank you so much. Great job. It was very fun for us too. I hope we do a second and third round. Is there anything else you'd like to add, Berkay? No, really. Thank you so much. Let's do some advertising too. Anyone who wants to can reach us and Günce on LinkedIn anytime. They can ask any questions without hesitation.

Maybe it could be a story like this : maybe they're a final-year economics student, interested in these kinds of topics, wanting to be a VC, etc. They can write directly like that. Ecosystem Since it's already small and there are only a handful of people, choosing each other is extremely important and valuable. It's very parallel, you know, some will be rejected, some will be accepted, and so on.

But it's perceived like a rabbit sulking. Doing things like this on your own is really simple. There won't be another open source because of this culture we've created, the communication we 've built with people, the communication we've built with VCs, etc. It's an important part of our customers. So I'm very grateful that you're a part of this . Definitely, let's have one more gossip, please. A few more scandals where we mentioned names, oh my God, really open source, everything is open.

It's very, very nice, of course . Thank you very much to everyone. Goodbye. Take care. See you. Bye bye. Take care .