Özgür Mert Sarıgül and Fatma Yalçın on going into business with a friend

I'd also like to ask something else. So, do you ever fight? How is the partnership going? Let's connect that to something else. Let's connect it to gossip or something. It 's been half an hour, we'll talk about work and stuff. Let 's gossip a little. I was nervous. I had researched Barış and all that. Dogukan was there too. I'm explaining things and stuff, but both of them are cornering me.

They ask strange questions. I would never do such things. Then, brother, an earthquake happened in the middle of the meeting . Barış was in Izmir. Peace is like an earthquake. I'm leaving. That's just how I am . Oh no, that kid's gone . Mom says hello again then. Greetings. Hello. Here you go. Welcome to our podcast. Nice to meet you. How are you? For the first time ever, we had a podcast with a large, residential population.

It was something like this. It was like a double date . Yes. Isn't it? But this is how I feel. You know how sometimes you just get so happy when you see certain pairs together? Like seeing you two, Barış and Berkay, side by side, it's like that feeling I get . You feel so safe and happy, you know . Because when those two get together, they're a duo that could conquer the world .

That's why seeing you like this makes me feel so... something . I'm happy like this . My mouth never closes; I'm constantly in eating mode. Thank you very much. These comments are what keep us going and alive, I guess . And similarly, I also feel like, although we called it a podcast, it feels more like we've just gotten together for a casual chat. There's something else, by the way.

Do you ever come across them? I saw it somewhere recently. They do a podcast like this, and there are about 10 of them, so there are about 10 people in a room. I have a feeling we're heading in that direction at this rate. So it looks like your team, our team, etc., will get together and do a podcast in a club house style, just like a club house .

Who's there? Was Atilla Taş there? One after another, these Twitter celebrities were constantly opening rooms like this on Click House and stuff. Yes, are there still any? Yes, yes . In fact, when Erol Köse passed away, he really went all out on Twitter that night, I think. It was a huge hit when it first came out, but everyone's sending invitations to each other and stuff. Such a prince was something private .

Everyone was wondering, "Did I get in? Do I have an invitation?" It was difficult to get in because of the COVID effect, but I think it's one of the things that ended after COVID. Yes. How's it going? First, would you like to briefly introduce yourself to those who don't know you ? What are you doing? What are you involved in during your life? Yes, we are actually the owners of FKON.

As Berkay also asked a few months ago, does FKO mean Fatma Mert? He threw out such a mysterious question: "Are those the initials of your name?" That's absolutely true. Don't say that, I had an epiphany when I realized it . Yes. Yes, but it turned out beautifully. That's great! I am learning. By the way, really? Yes. Back when we were freelancers, we'd joke around, like, " Look, we're both working!"

Fko, Fatma, Mert, and so on. We're also just messing around. Fame is also the first title of Lady Gaga's album . So, her birthday is on March 28th or something like that, and we were constantly trying to establish a connection, a link, between us. Why not, we said Femko. I mean, there are plenty of examples of this in Türkiye. Take Enka, for example, which stands for "brother-in-law" or "sister-in-law."

There was a Yumatu Yumatu, like, "Why not Fatma?" Was it Yusuf Mahmut Tuncer ? Yumatu There is such a thing. Yes. So, by the way, our legal name is Bub Rise, which is actually an abbreviation for the Turkish company Bubrise. It stands for Berkay, Uğur, Barış, and we added "rise" at the end just so it wouldn't sound awkward. Finding a name is honestly one of the hardest parts of the job, in my opinion.

It seems easy, but it's actually a difficult job. Yes. Fame, so what does Fco do? Actually, Fatma and I started out with this vision. We both had approximately 9-10 years of experience in the industry. Time had passed, and since that point, we've somewhat adopted this mindset in recent years. Now, we've both worked mostly in performance- oriented marketing agencies, or companies that interpret data, generate specific insights from that data, and then provide services accordingly .

But we've seen that in recent years, this approach has gradually shifted from a vertical, focused approach to a more holistic one in the marketing world. Because, as you know, it used to be like this: you'd specialize in one area, and there were sub-areas alongside it . You're either a very good data analyst or a very good performance marketer. You are very specialized in that field, and people would come to you for their services.

Now, especially in the last two years since we entered this era of agent AI, the topic has started to become a bit more ambiguous and blurred. And Fatma and I set out with the vision of creating a consulting firm focused on holistic marketing – one that could oversee all marketing actions for a brand, not just performance marketing, SEO, or analytics, and translate them into implementation and strategy .

That's why, when they come to us like this, explaining the new concept is usually a different experience for us as well . Because there's a system in place that's been in place for 10 years . This is why you go to an agency or consulting firm for performance evaluation . You come here for SEO. But that's not how things are anymore. There has been an incredible amount of progress in the last quarter.

In the first quarter of 2026, I'm thinking, so much has changed in the last three months; Meta is releasing separate updates, Microsoft is doing it from another source, Open AI is doing it from yet another, dozens of developments are happening every day. Just let us live for a while. Because he will also have to convey and explain these things to people soon . Our job has its difficult parts too.

But that was our overall vision. We decided to take a more general , more holistic approach to providing growth consulting to brands, and to offer support with a fresh perspective not just on a specific vertical, but on multiple decay . So, what about brands? I mean, for example, I don't think you really explain what you did to the brand in such detail. How are the reactions? So, they understand it right away, instantly?

Because that's our biggest problem with Berkay. So we're putting a lot of thought into describing Hardal with the fewest words possible. Can you explain it like that? Because you're talking about something long. So you're talking about a holistic structure, everything, and so on. That's how they understand it. For example, when you're on the street and you're talking to a taxi driver or somewhere else, asking what kind of work they do, what do you actually say?

Because if you say that holistic or whatever, what kind of talk is that? They might say something like, "What kind of language are you using?" What is your occupation? What are you doing? He is probably saying something like, "I'm the agency head," or something like that, Özgür, there. The mind goes to an agent, like, "Is it an Israeli agency or something?" Ugh. What do the brands say?

Hey man, something like this happened, by the way, it sounds really funny when you say it like that. At one point, I upgraded my car. My aunt and I went to the gas station to have his tires checked . There was a backhoe operator there. Here he is, bringing his huge ladle and all that . I asked something about our car and so on . After I left, the man said something to my aunt.

He said, "Wow, he's so young, what does he do for a living?" My aunt said something like, "He's into software and stuff like that ." Just pasting the software directly is amazing. I mean, it's really hard to describe someone to a taxi driver in everyday life. The same thing usually happens with brands. Of course, those at the enterprise level are more familiar with this topic, but when we explain this to medium-sized and SMEs, we get a certain feeling about it .

He nods his head, mostly pretending to understand. That's why we explain it like this. So, what are your needs? Tell us. We'll prepare a report for you. Let's conduct an audit. Let's talk after that. Only when he sees the report that comes with his own data, his own revenue, and his own advertising channels . So then they say, "Yes, this will deliver this performance, this will bring a vision, this is the holistic marketing approach," and it clicks in their minds.

But I understand what you're saying, by the way. For example, we also have customers who use Hardal. Things like this happen. Here we are talking about Hardal. Look, this will be beneficial, this will be beneficial. This feature is being acquired. After that, no one looks at it at all. They tell us, "Well, you got the Hardal. Go ahead and use it." Do you use it? Things like "You took it," and so on, happen a lot too.

Yes. This is our other challenge. Meanwhile, brands and the people within those brands may sometimes unfortunately not even have the time to use or understand the product, but perhaps that's just the nature of the business. On our side too. Because this is always one of the biggest debates. We keep going back and forth on our side too, trying to figure out how to get brands to incorporate Hardal more, how to get them to use it, how to explain it, how to make them digest it .

I think there's a lot of work that's really hard to explain . For years, there has been an attention economy, and all our work has been based on the attention economy . Your job was to follow that. And now everyone has shifted to an intention-based economy. So we've entered the agentic AI era. Many artificial intelligence technologies have now been developed that summarize digital footprints and directly tell us what we should actually do.

Now people are sitting around saying that the attention-seeking economy they've been used to for years has now transformed into an intention economy. Now, when people make purchases, they are influenced by the economy of intentions, by context , and the things that affect them are different; these are things that are a little difficult to understand . You're not very involved with technology either. huh. If you're someone involved in e-commerce, if you understand the product in some way, if you've entered the e-commerce world but aren't that tech-savvy, it seems like explaining and educating people about this shift will take a very long time, and I think you're probably experiencing the repercussions of this period right now.

Yes. Okay, let me ask you something. I 'm going to digress a bit, but actually, for years, this has been your job to explain these things. To the teams, that is, both to the brands when on the agency side and to other teams within the brand. Now you're doing it by running your own business . How does this feel to you? Are you happy that you founded Fame?

For example, do you say, "We're glad we founded it"? I wish we hadn't founded it. Actually, everything was going well for us. Are you at the place you mentioned? I am curious. I'll hand the floor over to Fatma here. We've been working on this a lot lately . Every night we give thanks for building it. Well, this idea has actually been on our minds for a while now.

Working on the agency side and then on the brand side, providing consultancy within our own ecosystem allowed us to move to a platform where we could express our perspective more freely and convey it more accurately . This idea has actually been on our minds for a while. Of course, it took some time for this to be implemented. We had to leave our current jobs, but then some fateful developments occurred there as well.

So, as of last February, I've actually become focused on Fü. Özgür had made this decision a little while ago, and it just so happened to coincide . We've left another year behind us. Of course, we learned a lot. We made many mistakes. There were things we did right, but when I think about the last year and when I think about the FCO, I can say this very clearly.

I'm so glad we switched to our own platform. I'm so glad we decided to continue this work within our own ecosystem . Of course, the world is changing, the business world is changing, and corporate life is changing, I think. And this happens a bit slower in Türkiye. It 's happening fast globally. It's taking some time for it to arrive in Türkiye, but we could already hear its footsteps.

Uncertainty, uncertainty in 2024 , uncertainty in 2025, even greater uncertainty in 2026 – in fact, with the global agenda, we're at a point where things are getting worse . So, we founded FEMCO, and we've passed one year . We have worked with many brands. We continue with many brands We always aim for long-term partnerships. We don't get involved in those "let's provide a very short-term, one-shot service and then leave" kind of stories.

There are also some projects that we don't approve of, particularly in this area. That's why we're moving forward with more meaningful partnerships, where we can leave a stronger mark and maintain long-term relationships. That's why our onboarding and brand introduction processes are a little different compared to other agencies. We specifically differentiated this aspect. We also learned that we need to differentiate ourselves within the system . So we also sometimes try to define FEMCO.

Even though we are the founders, we are facing challenges, but we want to position ourselves as an agency that offers more premium services. That is our goal, and we believe we are progressing in that direction . I'd like to add something to the previous question . This is how I explain my job to taxi drivers. I say I have a digital marketing agency. When she asks what we do, I say, "We're the ones who run the ads you see on Instagram."

Everything is falling into place. it's very simple. There were times when I explained things at length. Some people listened for a long time. There were ordinary people and people within the ecosystem as well. But when it comes to explaining things more simply, we also work and strive with a lot of freedom. We started our podcast series precisely for those things we can't explain in the simplest terms.

We talk a little longer over there . Nobody is killing us. Now, he doesn't say, "What does this mean?" Wait a second we've probably spoken to 202 clients like this. We are currently working with 16 or 17 of them. So, out of 25 clients, 17 understood us and started working with us. So I'd say don't be too sure about that. So, just because someone has started working on it does n't mean they understand it.

No offense intended, I'm not saying this about your clients. But it's not at all obvious to you. We saw the exact opposite. I'm curious about something . Berkay, are you happy with the business you started? Of course I'm very pleased . We could actually give a nice backstory to that. Where did we all meet? Originally, the podcast was going to have an intro, a kind of introduction, at the very beginning.

You went straight to fame, but I think if you also shared your individual experiences, like where you worked and where you met—that backstory—it would be a nice little glimpse, a greeting to the outside world, and show that we've created such a great ecosystem there. So, it's great that we've had such collaborations, and after each of these joint ventures, when different companies emerge, I think both the viewers and the younger generation will have a better understanding of how people make decisions after a certain amount of experience.

So not everyone just suddenly leaves their job. It's a specific experience. We work in corporate companies. We work elsewhere. Let me ask you this question, and while I'm at it, let me answer it as well. So I worked at a bank for almost 78 years or so. After that, with Arçelik and other agencies, I'm currently in the position where I'd say I want to be happiest. We are in a place where we educate ourselves, manage ourselves, learn from our mistakes ourselves, where no one has to scold us, and where we confront our own errors.

When we scold ourselves, we constantly and scold ourselves, let me ask you about that. Let's talk a little bit about that backstory, in my opinion. Where did we meet? And then I'd like to ask something else. So, do you ever fight? How is the partnership going? Let's connect that to something else. Let's connect it to gossip or something. It 's been half an hour, we're going to talk about work or something.

Let 's gossip a little. Yes. Let me ask you something. Let's talk about the back story like this. Where did we work, what did we do? Here you go. So, that's what happened. You know, Kıvanç abi, you know, the guy, you know, like a hitmaker here. He does it from there and so on. I came out analytical it sounded like a speech. Actually, when I first came to Istanbul, I worked at a place called Response IG, and Murat was there.

Berk was there before. Owner of Digital Advance Lab. I had received training in it. That's how I came. He. Does Berk mean "without a generation"? Exactly. I really like Berk, it's thanks to him. I gave her a shoutout back then and we still talk about it. It's like, even after all these years, it's always the same. If I just call one step like this, it catches up with everything I need.

From there, the response comes from there, and from there, to Kıvanç abi, and I've already switched to Anneet Kaos. I was fascinated when I got there. Peace was there too. I don't even know if you know this, Berkay. Barış will probably hear this story 10 times. Well, Barış was the one who arranged my first meeting. Oh really? Of course. I was very nervous. I had researched Barış and all that.

Dogukan was there too. I was explaining things to them, and those two were cornering me. They ask strange questions. I would never do such things. Then, brother, an earthquake happened in the middle of the meeting. Barış was in Izmir. Peace is like an earthquake . I'm leaving. They met. That's exactly how I am. Oh no, that kid's gone . Okay, fine. Yes. Whatever kind of curse you uttered, it caused an earthquake and got me kicked out, I mean, from the myth, and then after Barış left, Doğkan asked another question.

Then he said, "I don't have any questions, okay," and so on. That's how he closed it. That's how I got into analytica. Well, thank goodness for the earthquake , thank goodness for peace. I mean, if there wasn't an earthquake... no joke. Yes, that's how we entered. Then, I also went back and forth there, and I completed 4 and a half years . And there was also a bit of a Hepsiburada experience, but you said, "Oh, were you also at Hepsiburada?"

Of course, I too spent about 78 months here. Then I couldn't resist, and again, you know, Kıvanç abi, and the other one, you know, because I was having a romantic relationship with him, there was a constant comeback with that. That's how the story went, but as Berkay said, we met some really wonderful people. So, you and Berkay are very old friends of Fatma. So, how do you know Fatma ?

From the Analytic House era or before? No, we met at university . We've been friends for 10 years. We've been friends for 10 years. That's why forming a partnership becomes so easy. 10- year friend. We recommend it, guys. I'm going to ask about that, so it's like you two were actually friends and then worked in the same places for a while. Of course, this is what happened .

Remember how Özgür gave me a reference to get into Ethics House? He was the bodyguard when I entered. You could think of it as me getting involved in some kind of push-ahead chaos, through a bit of... well, free will. Then I worked at Anos for 2.5 years. I switched to a different agency. After that, I went to a global company, and they were all here. Özgür has returned to the Analytics House.

I went global, I'm all here. While they're all returning to analytical House here, I think they're all analytical, but not all in the same era. He was on the Turkish side. I worked on the global side, but I've known this friend for 10 years, since university . We were also running clubs and things like that at university, by the way. We were always doing something there too.

There was a partnership there as well. So, because we've been friends for a long time, I think our partnership is a little easier to manage. On the other hand, I could have said the same thing . I could have offered a counter-argument, like, since you've been friends for 10 years, wouldn't the partnership ever get tough at certain stages? So it's not easy, because... uh-huh . huh. Let him answer freely.

I don't seem to be having too much trouble. For example, we never fight . It's like we 've become something else entirely over the years. Since we're like siblings and we know each other's personalities very well, our arguments are usually passive- aggressive. You know, the most disgusting thing, passive-aggressive fighting, that's really the most disgusting thing. Like, they make a slight snide remark or something, and I stay silent, like, "She's my sister," or something like that, and he says, "She's my brother," and so on, it's a bit like a family business.

From our side, Özgür says something like, "I didn't like this topic," for example, we're discussing an important topic, and he likes it, and he says, "I didn't like this topic." So what I'm saying is, you may not like it, but we need to have this discussion. We need to solve this. Then you can continue not loving me if you want . But you have to spend 10 minutes on this .

Because we know each other's characteristics a little better. But not like that . It's not about going along with them or being accommodating, it's more like, " I know this bothers you, or you don't want to talk about it, but we have to talk about it." Or, conversely, there are things I don't like or things I oppose. I can say that quite clearly too, but we usually talk about certain things for a very, very long time .

Therefore, some problems are already discussed at our table before they even become issues . That topic doesn't usually turn into a big problem. Because either we notice something or there's a problem with how our own system works. Our team problems are somewhat more limited. Because we only have a small team anyway . But we definitely feel something. Even if we don't feel it, we see it. We also operate in a very transparent manner .

Our team structure is the same way. Everyone feels very comfortable sharing everything with us . We pay close attention to this as well . That's why, since we usually intervene in problems before they become problems, I think Özgür and I haven't had any major conflicts. I don't remember. So, generally speaking, you should never embark on a journey with just one partner, or two business partners. Choose your partner wisely .

You know, like, do this and that and that. So, there's already that perception, actually. I think this is generally the biggest problem people face when starting a company. Okay, I'll set it up, but I can't manage everything on my own. We need a partner, we need a collaborator. I think this is, I mean, you know, like when you go into a dictionary or something, and there are 5 tips for starting a company, and things like "never start a partnership," "I started a construction company with my brother-in-law, and he scammed me," and so on.

Now, we're kind of an exception, aren't we? We fight with Barış every day, don't we? I'm someone who gets upset very easily and I'm constantly sulking and acting passive-aggressive, throwing tantrums and stuff, then I leave the meeting. But the fun part is, and I enjoy this kind of argument, because I don't like it when we're just arguing and then 10 minutes later we're all making up and stuff .

Because it's a way to release tension. Our burden, the weight on our shoulders, is so heavy that it's not just about sitting around and opening an agency or setting up a software company. So people's salaries go through you. There are a lot of processes, contracts, it seems. It's actually a very stressful job. We make it fun. I was going to ask him. I just wanted to say that.

Did anything like that happen to you, like when you were starting out? Clearly, it didn't work out. It has gone to some good places too . Yes. I could also say something there, for example, compared to yours. Ours is the complete opposite. Berkay and I actually became friends while working together. We decided to create something together. We were n't a very close friend back then. Then there's sincerity.

She inevitably scolded me anyway . We haven't been able to see each other much in the analytics department either, by the way, Barış and I. So when I went in, Barış was leaving, but you know, he had long hair and was acting all artsy and stuff. We never... I mean, we didn't get a chance to meet there. Exactly. When she says "long hair," she's talking about herself.

By the way, you heard about me, I've been thinking about this for a while. When did Barış ever have such long hair? When Özgü entered, were Barış's hair long then? She had taken a nap before I arrived . I saw their photos while stalking them on Instagram. The land was exactly one place long. Mine was long too, by the way, did you know that? Mine was waist-high, which is normal.

I know. You showed it to me. It 's been a long time. We'll probably insert it here and there sometime using editing software. I have something that was taken at a wedding, right in the middle of it . Let's put it here. But yours must be more interesting, by the way. So, it means you've trusted each other, subconsciously or deep down . You know, without being friends, just directly in the middle of it all?

Yes. By the way, don't pay attention to Berkay saying things like "I get passively aggressive and sulk." So our partnership is based entirely on transparency. So we talk about everything. Sometimes I push a little harder, wanting us to talk right away. And I think the most critical point is, you know, not holding onto things, not keeping anything inside, and letting it all out after you've talked it out.

Otherwise, if you keep things bottled up inside after every argument with the other side , if you can't release that anger, it builds up and comes out in unexpected places. So, our discussions, where we say everything to each other yesterday, always end up being solution-oriented . Okay, fine, you don't like this. What should I do then? Tell me, then the other side will tell me. You agree too .

Okay, I've noted your feedback. We also have a routine where we assume they're going to fight, then we get feedback from everyone, get back to work, and then continue as if nothing happened . For example, I think both of those things are nice. I don't know if you do something like that, but we recommend it. For example, let's say one of us wakes up on the wrong side of the bed .

Is it ok? So you can get angry about everything. For example, Barış said something like, "Even the person in the elevator got stuck," referring to the bee . He says it feels like you're sinking while walking on the road . So, I'm in a really bad mood today. So, would you mind leading the meeting? For example, could you handle this or that? For example, he says, "I'm going for a walk."

Or maybe he's saying this from the start because, really, I mean, maybe it's because of the planets or something else, you know he's bringing it up to gossip a little . It's possible, man. Physiologically, humans don't develop this condition in a single day . But when you really realize this and share it with someone close to you—it doesn't necessarily have to be a business partner, but someone you work with—then, for example, I become the one trying to motivate peace .

I'm saying. "Dad, just relax, put on some music, clear your head, I'll handle it from there. I'm doing my thing, we're supporting each other from there." The same thing happens to me . Does anything like that ever happen to you, or are you this transparent? Getting up backwards, things like that, upside down . Of course, we usually wake up around 9 or 9:30 in the morning, and then either Fatma or I text each other.

Good morning, how are you today? How are you feeling? That's really how our mornings are. Because if we don't talk about it at all, for example, we'll go in and Fatma's voice will be very low, or mine will be, or I'll be angry, and so on . Communication is very important, as you said, and also, business is actually a very emotionless field, you know, normally there shouldn't be any emotions, but that's not the case, as you said.

So we're constantly asking ourselves, "Do I feel good today?" or "Will I be able to look at this today?" or "Do I really have the energy to explain this to this client today ?" huh. Since we don't have a single product, you know, we're talking to at least two people about something every day . He asks a question, he says something. And if you add that negative element to your schedule on a particular day, it can really ruin your whole plan.

A negative response, something is wrong . That's why we also constantly ask things like, "How are you , are you well?" How's life going today? These things happen from time to time. We're having checkups among ourselves. If that doesn't happen, things will get chaotic. They come on certain weeks of the month, you know, they take turns, sometimes they come to me, sometimes to Fatma, and so on .

I think, I think there's a bit of that. I always used to think that if I started my own business, my responsibilities would increase, but in reality, the number of people I'd be accountable to would be reduced to zero. So, I wouldn't have a boss in the end, that's my problem. On the contrary, it has increased a lot. So, internally, I'm accountable to Berkay. I am accountable to the other employees in the company.

I am accountable to the customers. I am accountable to the investor. So there have been hundreds of people like that. Sometimes, even that can be annoying, I think. Well, that's what I'm wondering too. So, you're saying, "Let's approach this agency perspective a little differently," and so on, but in the end, you're still competing with classic, conventional agencies in certain aspects. So, you might be entering into processes like those competitions or whatever they're called, for the same customer.

What do you think? So, are you satisfied with the agency industry you're currently in in Türkiye? We're not happy about this, by the way. We talk about this a lot. We are also discussing this situation with other agency owners outside of our own organization. The market has become very strange, in terms of prices as well. So, in terms of the service provided, the price range, and especially the new customers we've spoken to in the last 5-6 months, they're all complaining.

Here's why you're changing agencies. Because it's something very important to us. He says he worked there for 3 years and now he wants to change jobs. Why would you change partners after working together for three years, or if you've only worked together for six months and want to change partners? It happens in the short term too . Here's the feedback we're receiving. They're not communicating with us.

They are not providing accurate reports. They are unable to determine the right strategy, or they cannot share our vision, our perspective . Because, as I said at the beginning, the issue has now gone far beyond just turning ads on and off and reporting. When you do that, at some point the service you're providing gets disrupted. That's how we always saw the world, a bit like this. Everyone is like analytical chaos .

Everyone is like hype at work. Everyone's like this, they're more intellectual agencies. Everyone was in a bubble, thinking, "All agencies in Türkiye are like this ." But then we saw that these companies we listed might only be 5%, but 95% offer different services. There is also an agency in Konya. Whether it's serving one boutique or 100 boutiques, there are agencies in Trabzon as well . Some social media platform is doing it.

It exists in Afyon as well. So the customer profile you get is actually influenced by the service they received in their own region . You go to that guy and try to explain something really advanced to him. You provide a price quote. He doesn't understand you, and getting him there is already very difficult. Because he's incapable of even making that kind of reasoning. People in Turkey already look at this issue from a very monetary perspective.

So, it's directly like money, or something like that, he's looking at it directly like this. I'm giving 100,000 L to an agency, he says. They came to me and asked for 300,000 L. This also enables and disables ads in the metadata section of Google Ads. And it turns it on and off. What am I going to give? he says. So, whoever opens and closes it for the cheapest price gets it .

Then the following also fall within our sector . He received digital marketing training in two different jobs. It can open and close some ads. It opens and closes for 5,000 lira . He goes and gets service from him. Then he comes along and tries to get fame from Kodan . Now it's becoming very difficult to explain that it's not the same thing and that we're not in the same world, or it's often the people coming from agencies that seem very intellectual .

So, have you ever experienced that? Let's say, for example, the opposite is true; they're working with an agency, let's say a big agency, and they've worked for incredible amounts of money, and then you come along and say, "Nothing has been done here," or "Is this what was done for this money?" So, have there ever been any cases where people came from the expensive section, not the cheap one?

Or is it generally always cheap? Or some of them were expensive and very large . They already have a story like this . You say hello and they immediately start complaining. I feel very sorry for him too, by the way . So I'm also upset about the feedback people give about agencies in the industry. After all, I'm a player in that industry too . They have conversations like this there too .

He says he has 60 customers. He has 40 or 50 customers. She says he doesn't give her enough attention, or that he can't dedicate as much time as I'd like. And that's where the problem arises. And I understand the guy, the agency owner, too. The man might need to acquire 40 or 50 customers to utilize them. Because he employs maybe 100 people. And there, too, situations arise where there seems to be a time constraint problem .

That happened too. That's why we're in that kind of mindset. Let's offer unlimited, time-limited service to a more refined client portfolio, rather than a very large one . Let's look into it. H, and let's proceed like that. By the way, we do n't have any time-based agreements with any of our customers . They can write to us and contact us without any limitations. They are all very happy.

We are happy too, by the way. Because we can sleep soundly when we lay our heads on the pillow. So we're not saying that to the guy . Oh well, I sold it for 3 hours, just 3 hours, let's see what happens. Since it's lacking, we want to advance that mindset a bit more . So, we're in the mindset of, "I don't want to earn $500,000 a month, I'd rather earn $50,000 or $ 100,000, I want peace of mind, and I want the work I do to be of high quality."

It's already growing, and it 's growing along with you. So there's really no need to kill yourself. I don't think there's any need to stress. I don't know. Of course, everyone has a different mindset. Everyone knows that. Of course . In this sector, things are a bit confusing; pricing is confusing, and the services provided are confusing. We 've been hearing a lot of bad stories about the agency world, as Özgür said, for the last 6 months.

What I remember clearly, and what I considered a very big problem, was this: "I signed a contract with an agency, I worked with them for 6 months," says the client. " They couldn't even figure out my brand in six months," he says. Now this is what you become. How? Okay, adapting to the brand's reality , looking at its historical data, studying what the future holds for the brand, etc., of course takes time, and a certain amount of time at that.

We are aware of this, but the fact that this communication problem has lasted so long and cannot be overcome leads us to a certain point. Okey. So it seems some agencies only hire certain clients for specific, short periods. Okay, let 's do it, I'll provide service for 3 or 6 months. I want to earn cash quickly. If he leaves afterwards, so be it, it's not a problem for me.

We have also witnessed that this logic is being applied in some cases. When we got three clients from the same agency in a row within the same month, we were like, " What's the problem?" Now they're all mentioning different problems. There isn't a single problem. Let's also tell you which agency they're from, so we don't kill you later. Tell me, what kind of lynching are you talking about now?

No, but this is what we'll do. This is what we'll do. We'll make a beep sound as you speak . We'll censor it with beeps and cut out parts and make a teaser. This is what a podcast is like, folks. We didn't say. Exactly, that agency and all, you know, the viewing records. Berkay just landed a really good hook. You know, they watch that hook. Then, in the background, Berkay's voice says, "That's the agency."

Who is that agency, etc.? More on that later. But if you just said the first letter or the last letter, it would definitely be clear. Yes. Understandable. If I tell you the beginning, it will be clear. It'll be obvious if I tell you the ending. He said that the reason was because most agencies, you know, had the same name and all that stuff. That's why there are so many agencies.

This agency's name is very unique. I'll just give you this spoiler. Tell me how many there are. How many letters? Something appeared on the screen, like, that guy was in that old Mehmet Ali program, you know, the 'b' that appeared, the translation, the letters were pressed, and so on, that Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fortune... ah, thank you. By the way, agencies... I sometimes mix up the names of agencies, there are so many agencies with similar names.

By the way, it reminded me of that Wheel of Fortune, where a different model spins the patterns every week. What if we went out there and translated it like that , dancing around, and Mehmet Ali Erbil and others were there, saying "oh my god" and then, with a finger gesture , but then the agency comes out there. Yes. Yes. What crazier times those were, really. Now that it comes to mind, let me summarize, Barış.

We shouldn't blame the agencies either. There's also this... That's how people see it too. Clients treat agencies as if I were a software program. I have a program and I'm going to press two buttons. So, I'm going to do something really technical in the meta, and everyone's going to be rich and happy. They think you're... Most people think it's software. I'm into software, and frankly, I think there's a lot more to it.

There's also a lot of logic in pitting agencies against each other . So, recently, at a Measure Camp in Turkey, we even discussed this with many agency participants. So why do the agencies seem like enemies of each other? Why do brands allow agencies to be treated this way? For example, I think these things are very inappropriate. We are not happy with our agency. We didn't tell our agency, but please check your accounts .

Now everyone is doing this, whether they like it or not, and you, as an agency, are coming in and getting involved in this process. But when you look at it, it's a very unethical thing. Then suddenly, the agency that split off has no idea what's going on. People are saying, "Oh, what happened?" Or, well, we 've all seen the agency. It is requested that permission be granted to one person at a time, randomly.

Oh, they call him our cousin or something. So, if all agencies took a stand on this issue , if everyone was open, everything from these tenders to granting authority, conducting audits, etc., could go in a much different direction. Here too, I think the brands are to blame, not the agencies. So you'll be working with an agency. Why would you feel the need to pit 25 agencies against each other, for example?

Choose one and talk about it. Follow a fully transparent process. Then select and proceed. So, things happen with brands, and with brands themselves. I'm so sorry, Özgür. Well, for example, every year we work with agency A, and if there's no discount on agency A's costs for the following year, something like this happens in corporate companies, especially enterprise companies . Let's look for another agency besides this one.

Now, that purchasing, that digital marketing team, we work at this agency. Rather than continuing, the immediate goal becomes this. Reducing the marketing budget. What will he do? He will receive offers from other agencies . He needs to get offers from two agencies simultaneously in order to proceed with the purchase. Therefore, a company doesn't employ someone at an agency for more than one or two years . That's why it keeps changing hands.

With so many agencies changing hands, how many more agencies can there be anyway? As you said, there are only about 5 or 10 agencies in total. We're talking about a marketing agency, by the way. Also, when people say "agency," they often think of acting casting . What we're talking about here is a regular marketing agency, a digital marketing agency. So, I think that rather than blaming the brands themselves, it's more a matter of the ecosystem being like this, unfortunately .

We need to do something like that to him, a little bit . So we shouldn't be surprised. And it's easy to blame the agency too, I think. Of course, it's definitely easy. So there was a discussion, for example, about why administrations spend hundreds of thousands of dollars working with firms like McKinzie and BCG . Now, with new AI tools, you can get the same report that these brands offer you.

He was asking why they weren't buying it. Someone else wrote something like this. You're missing the point here. The problem, or rather the solution, is not obtaining this report . The solution is to be able to find someone to blame if things don't go well after these managerial decisions are made. Being able to say, " We made Coca-Cola, we created it, but McKinzie said it wouldn't work," is unacceptable.

It's their fault. Okay, let's work with BCG from now on. So, actually, there's a bit of that logic there too, but on a smaller scale. Oh, that didn't work out, we're not happy with our agency . Sales have dropped sharply. So, at that time, you should have done something, I think, as a marketer too, sometimes. So, as he said, it's not exactly anyone's fault, but when many factors pile up, this strange ecosystem can form.

That's interesting. That's why I'm so excited about it. Now, with artificial intelligence developing further in terms of automation and agents, there's a stimulation that it could handle all media buying . So what will happen then ? So what will we say then? That's what happened because of Samt. " Our media acquisitions have become more expensive," he said. Are we going to say something like "it was a mistake"?

Then someone will be found, someone will be found. Exactly. How do you guys use it? How do you use it? How do you use artificial intelligence, both as a company and as individuals ? We use it in a more creative way, by the way. We use it a lot in content creation. Secondly, we use our own ideas to utilize both our creative and strategic ideas. We're trying to see if there's a perspective we haven't considered, but we're keeping that limited internally.

Because when they focus entirely on this, when they use Cem, it's constantly a real brain-frying experience . They can't think anymore. He's so creative and analytical that people start asking him about everything. Therefore, unless it's a very critical issue, such as when productivity is significantly reduced, it's used extensively on our side. But again, it's about 50% artificial intelligence and 50% old-fashioned manual learning, reading, and analysis. Because otherwise, we really can't get out of this mess.

Just imagine, artificial intelligence doesn't know the context. My colleague went and had the AI interpret the report . They've come up with the strategy, and now they're going to ask the client about it and get a result. Ultimately, it's unclear who it's entrusted to anymore. We use it, but it's a limited usage, you know, like, fing. Yes. We are imposing restrictions in some areas. We are limiting it exactly as it is.

We're not saying to everyone, "Come on, use it, use artificial intelligence!" Sometimes we also use it for very simple tasks, things that will take time and effort, like editing a file or converting data on a sheet to a specific format . So, since I'm positioned more on the data side at the agency, I tend to give them tasks like data organization or other things that take up a lot of my time, and I ask the AI to do them.

So sometimes we use it for very simple things. And sometimes, as Özgür said, could we perhaps add a different dimension to our perspective, a little more creative, a little more strategic ? Or, when generating a creative idea, we use it to figure out how to make it more meaningful . But I'm probably the most distant person from AI on the team. I'm a bit of a boomer in that sense, but of course I've been using it for a very long time.

I also used different tools. As someone who has been a bit more reserved so far, I use it for simpler tasks, things that need to be done quickly. We really whip them with whips! So, on the product side, on the business side, let's connect things like coworking spaces and the cloud. For example, I have a tool that I've taken notes on, called obsidian. I connected it to my desktop via the cloud.

He works every day and does that for me. At CEO level, look, I wrote this point last week . It says, "Did you finish?" After that, I synchronized it with Linear . For example, it does this: it opened this task in Linear. Check if you've completed it. You keep writing comments to me every day as if I were your assistant, saying things like "You need to follow up," and so on, I'm doing these kinds of annoying, tedious projects and stuff like that.

So, we actually use it quite a lot, yes. But that's not it either; I'm against that kind of thing too. For example, let's say the sales team says, " Let's connect all the CRM systems to this one place." Ok. So, that's where you ask a question and then you get an answer, you know. Someone needs to do something, someone needs to come forward. Okay, but the fact that something is usually understood as a human doing it is...

Doing a chore, a task that takes time, is one thing, but strategically, like in the Minseny example, when it comes to managing stress, managing crises, making strategic decisions, or analytical thinking, there's nothing superior to a human being, logically speaking. Now, because people are messing it up, because they're upsetting that balance, will artificial intelligence take our jobs? No, man, if you did your job properly, people would take your hand away from it.

I mean, let's leave those time-consuming, OOC (out-of-the-box) tasks to AI. For example, instead of typing emails, I can quickly write very long emails using dictation. I can type very well instead of typing with a keyboard. That speeds up my time, and yes, I use it here, but I can't put AI in charge of a company. That's how we think too. I don't know. Peace is Yes. We have a bit of that kind of paranoia in us .

So, when it comes to connecting things, yes. We are sensitive. We think about it five times. So, that's also a possibility. Yes. So, check on him. Are we sure about this? Let's see. Let's look again. Or perhaps we use our general usage or we use anthropomorphic usage more. huh. Instead of Open AI, Antropin has already released about 22 features in the last 25 days . So, try to keep up if you can, there's cowork, there's applications now, and you can connect everything from WhatsApp on your phone to your Skype, Gmail, everything.

And for us, it's like, we can't connect this right now, it's impossible, even though we're an open startup, because at some point it might go beyond our data privacy and affect our customers' data privacy. But apart from that, as Berkay said, our perspective is to use it in ways that can really make our lives easier. For example, what is it for us? It's an advantage for us that everyone on the team can write code .

Everyone can create these little tools, so they can try scraping, check out the site. For example, someone on our sales team could write a small piece of code and create a tool that can automatically perform an audit when you add a website to it . This is the ideal use case for us. So, these kinds of conveniences. Or, as he said, you could have research done, but the results of that research might not give you any information.

We're at a point where we're saying, "Let him produce a report for you, read it, and then review it yourself." But I think it's a difficult situation for everyone. So, to what point are you going to use it? Now I understand Fatma's approach and perspective as well. You know, being a little more distant . Because once you get stuck in that loop, you end up wasting a lot of time.

So, while you're thinking "I learned, I understood, I did," hours pass, and the added value can be very low, and so on and so forth. Finding the right balance is important. So, we need to do something with the output as well. So, is it true or not? You need to have reached a level of intellect where you can analyze this . In that regard, too, you use it very well; for example, it does very good SIAR analysis.

But can you really understand how accurate the output he gave actually is? And yes. For people at the beginning of their careers, we talk about this a lot, especially in our team. If you know the right way, you can use artificial intelligence as a very powerful tool. But if you don't know the truth, if you're not at that level yet, and you completely rely on accepting the output of artificial intelligence and continue to do so, you're inevitably making mistakes.

Meanwhile, it doesn't matter which artificial intelligence tool you use. And we're kind of not using Open AI anymore . I don't think anyone on the team uses it either. It lagged behind a bit because, in my opinion, among its competitors, if you're at that intellectual level, as Özgür said, you can utilize it very well, you can use it very well, but if you 're not at that level, if you don't question the output of artificial intelligence, let alone the intellectual level, that's where the problem begins.

Therefore, when it comes to certain analyses, reports, and detailed strategies, I specifically tell the team this: I want you to do this. I mean, I want you to do it without using artificial intelligence. Then, if you want, you can get further support from artificial intelligence to improve it. Because you also have access to the panels. You can see the data yourself, and of course, as you reach a certain level, you can interpret it as well.

That's why we're saying things so clearly, like "I'm expecting your interpretation," but I don't want it to be perceived as completely contradictory. Some of my comments are leaning in that direction. I 'm against artificial intelligence, he said. Ok . The second one doesn't use artificial intelligence. The second teaser is out, guys. One of them is that we're going to finish that agency. And Fatma is also against artificial intelligence.

Okay then. And two materials came out. Thanks, Fatma. Fko. Does Fco not believe in artificial intelligence? Doesn't he believe it ? Are you trying to destroy us right now? I don't understand We just delivered the new material. That's just how it is. Oh, I have something to say. That's absolutely true. For example, we now assign case studs to people in the recruitment process, and we know that these CAS studs will be done using AI.

That's why, for example, we're asking this question right now. Write about which AI tools you used and how you used them. Because we do n't expect to use it. But sometimes something like this happens, for example, someone recently did a case study and came up with a funnel. In Funneld, for example, the ratios from reach out to demo, and from demo to success, are so high that you realize, "This was written by AI, and you, as a candidate, didn't even consider whether this number makes sense."

For example, it directly leaves a really bad taste in your mouth. So it raises a huge question mark, it creates a problem. So, as you said, it's really important to convey the point that you have to look into it yourself, write down the details yourself, to the teams, to the individuals, and to ourselves. Lately, Özgür and I have also been delving a bit into the topic of AI psychosis .

We are doing readings in this field. We'll probably talk about it on the podcast at some point, but we're also reading a lot of data about the negative aspects of AI. We also come across some research studies . The important thing here is that, at some point, we need to be able to think critically in order to develop what we call a marketing perspective . And when a person or an organization becomes fully dependent on artificial intelligence, the effects can spread within that organization as well.

At that point, the level of critical thinking drops significantly, and this directly affects the quality and output of your work. Therefore, it can also have this negative aspect. That's why I think we always need to approach things with caution. I agree 100%. Okay Barış, I'm curious about something related to your business . Now, you know how the conversation always comes back to this: for example, I'm getting information about my health from artificial intelligence.

Here I am, receiving notifications on my Apple Watch. I woke up feeling stressed today. This is how I feel. Then I'll go shopping. I'm asking artificial intelligence. Then I'll go do some grocery shopping. I'm going to buy some things for the house, so I'm asking her about it. And it seems to me like... This is how the digital footprint is gradually disappearing. Because a machine, an artificial intelligence, gathers and synthesizes everything and tells you what to do .

And at this point, I'm thinking about something else. How will we be able to measure everything then? You know, these digital footprints, how will the machine that synthesizes those footprints allow us to measure them? Because it will affect our purchasing decision. Because I'm not going to go to that website and buy it, after all. Like, he'll bring it right to my doorstep. So, in the world of measurement, you naturally participate in more events and so on .

So, things like how to attribute things in a no-click world worry me a lot. Because of the updates that came out this year. Are you doing anything related to it, or is it actually not like you think it is? Is that something like freedom? Berkay, would you like to share your thoughts? Oh, that's a nice spot there. I mentioned it somewhere in time, it actually started with something, I wrote a master's thesis on it.

For example, that was exactly the topic of my thesis. We don't always measure things by clicking on something on a website, but when we incorporate personal data and artificial intelligence into this, the resulting platform is completely different. It's not about clicks, maybe it's about voice or something else, the data in the background—that's what I was starting from . For example, you open the refrigerator. If you're out of eggs in the fridge, tell me to connect the fridge to the internet.

Since it would essentially boil down to something like ordering eggs from Amazon on your behalf, it would actually make more sense to measure the opposite of your decision-making process rather than the actual decision-making process itself . For example, when you check how many people have watched a video on YouTube, you look at the counter on YouTube's servers; it's the same logic here. So, the ending of the Funnel will actually be different.

Just like the thing has changed over the years . What do they say? The situation has changed. We are now even trying to gradually implement it at Hardal. Show incoming job referrals from those agent AIs on the dashboard along with AI visibility. Remember how we used to measure that thing back then? We're measuring that thing now too. A product has sold this many units on Google Ads and this many units on Facebook .

We'll add that as well. For example, the data coming from open AI is so inaccurate, and so on. Look how many spy bots have arrived, and so on . So, the platform changes, meaning only the infrastructure changes. I'm also quite curious to see where he'll go next . So I think we can adapt easily. So, situations might arise that I can't even imagine right now. It's a bit like science fiction, but with things like chips, neural links, brain signals, etc., something will definitely be discovered, something will be measured, but I don't know what it will be.

I'm actually looking forward to it . And then there's this other thing... I think that's reaching a critical point. Yes. Certain products are really easy to buy, and that's why you'll end up buying a lot of products directly from within GPT chat . But on the other hand, our belief is that a certain product group isn't so easy to acquire. So you're still not really just buying a product by chatting with someone via GPT.

So, there are still physical stores. People are still offering opinions to each other, and as the ticket size gets larger, this lag continues to increase . How much will user behavior change here? This is more critical in our view. Because yes, get the egg with Chat GPT . Buy $10, $20, $30 items with Chat GPT. But you're unlikely to get that $500 thing based on a single chat GBT conversation .

So, as Berkay also said, the funnel is changing, and from our perspective, a new medium is also entering the scene. So, within the omnichannel approach, it's actually healthier to include this as a separate channel and run it within that separate channel . If we can already capture this – for example, the user went to the store , downloaded an application, reviewed the chat with the GPT agent – and include it as a third channel, then we believe we can actually grasp the user's journey more clearly .

Our perspective is a bit different; others have gone and completely returned there, but it will immerse itself and become a great canal. Because we always saw him. There were physical stores. Website added. Website traffic has increased significantly. Application was added alongside website traffic. The application's traffic increased even further. Now we're actually moving on to the next one. We'll see what happens next. In my opinion, the most critical and dangerous aspect of the job for most teams is first-party data.

Marketplaces, for example, are a very good example of this. Many brands have lost access to first-party data since the introduction of marketing. In this new agent-based world, where will first-part data be located and how will it function? This is very, very critical, in my opinion. Otherwise, we feel like it will end up being a structure where brands are completely stripped of their power . But it will show from time to time, meaning it will adapt to this.

It seems like we're all going to become companies that evolve and transform, based on behavioral analysis . Exactly. Well, it's like an episode of Black Mirror, I mean, there was an episode like that there too . I was incredibly pleased. They're doing something to his brain or something. She needs to switch to a paid plan, and since she's on a free plan, for example, while she's in bed with her husband, a condom advertisement suddenly plays, but she's unaware of it.

His brain or something is making him say it. Here I am, driving along and I hear a shopping advertisement . Her husband complains, "My wife says things like that." You need to switch to a paid plan. The free plan has ads and stuff. Now, when things like this happen, I think there will be a lot going on until we get to the point of measuring it. I had planned to continue with a bit more gossip, like talking about horoscopes, choosing partners based on their zodiac signs, and things like that .

I had some topics in mind, but if you'd like, you could invite us to your podcast sometime, because we'll be joining you with Barış as well. What do they say? He will come to Türkiye. Then, in fact, invite us physically, or force us to return the invitation. No, I'm saying, if we hadn't said anything like that , you wouldn't have invited us anyway . You're waiting, all dressed up.

You'll be going straight to your own podcast from here. Well, if you'd like, let's hear the final words and wrap things up slowly. Thank you very much for attending and for accepting our invitation. Now, I'll leave the final words to you. Let's grab the lander. We thank you very much. It was very enjoyable. My energy level has skyrocketed. Honestly, I'm so happy to be going to the shoot.

That was a nice. Then the next thing we'll do is meet at our studio. Let's unite history, let's say. Thanks again so much . Take care of yourselves. Thanks a lot. Goodbye. See you later. Bye bye . Bye bye . Yeah.