Ali Karabey on burn, hype and what actually motivates founders

That's great. That's exactly the kind of answer we wanted to hear, at least. But whatever you do, don't gamble that money away . So you saw that there was something like that, and you investigated me . We're definitely going. Red or black ? Pavilion. Brothel, nightclub, and all that stuff . Yes. Very good. Bravo. No way. I'll adjust my camera too. The new iPhone feature has arrived, folks.

Now, there's also this situation. I just saw that there was a wide-angle lens like this . Now, look, it turned out great. You can adjust it like this. Very good. Distance is better. Distance is better. This distance is better. Exactly. Very close. There's no need to see all the details, like the pores. I was looking for that too, honestly! So, we 'll start slowly. Okay, let 's get started, my friend.

Our podcast used to start with something like, "One second..." How did we begin? We didn't really do much with it. It 's been a while since the podcast. The flood is telling everyone. Hello everyone. Hello everyone and welcome to the new episode of our podcast. Our guest this week is Ali Karabey from episode 22. Greetings, Mr. Ali. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. How are you doing?

Is everything alright ? We've only just begun, so we're essentially acting like we're starting the conversation again in the middle. Yes. They didn't film the first half hour, my dear friends. It just occurred to them now. Let's see what we'll talk about again in the second half hour. Well, we're good, we'll react to that conversation at the end of the podcast . So we don't want to waste your time again by pretending we've already talked to you.

I think we'll get through this in the same conversation. yes. How are you? Is everything going well? How's life going? Good morning my baby. So when my close friends ask me about it, and you're considered one of them now, I just say... Thank you very much. Well, I'm saying this because I believe it . We don't have the chance to be bad. Let me just say I don't have one.

Let's not include you in this either. Of course there is stress , we face many difficulties. So do n't think that we're cheerful and lively all day long . Of course, there are many challenges . But I don't have the luxury of being unhappy, giving up, or being discouraged . Because I'm such a lucky person, go ahead I was about to ask him why. You continue. So why not?

Because of the work we do, in this environment, in this geography, in this country, I've been surrounded by people like you—very intelligent, very insightful, energetic, optimistic, and crazy enough to want to solve big problems with small teams, small amounts of money, and limited resources— every day for the past 15 years . And that's a huge stroke of luck. I'm aware of this every day. I'm aware of it now too.

That's why I have to be good . We're fine. That was a very, very motivating answer. Shut that thing down. Exactly. I'm hanging up now, guys, did you get the gas ? I'm getting a little carried away right now. Yes, that's true, but it's about health. No, I agree 100%. Brother, look at the issues outside of these screens . What are people talking about? There are so many problems in the world, in our country, everywhere, and yet we are so detached from them.

Look at the topics we're discussing. Will we become unicorns? Will we be Deacakorn? Are we moving to America? We are present every day with discussions about things that are almost absurd, or at least perceived as utopian, like "Should we go to Japan?" How lucky we are. Therefore, we need to be aware of this opportunity and make the most of it . That's absolutely true. This is one of those things that Berkay and I occasionally remind ourselves of .

Meanwhile, sometimes when things bother us, and when the two of us put our heads together and think about it, there are many times when we say certain things . So our problem isn't really a problem . Three years ago, if someone had said to us, "We're going to give you a problem like this, what do you say?" we would have jumped at the chance to tackle it.

Actually, dealing with such problems makes you feel good. You look at yourself from a different perspective and say, "You do n't need to stress so much. Enjoy the problem you're dealing with right now." We often say that. For example, I think we need to change things a bit there, humbly speaking, being a few years older, maybe 5 or 10 years older . Oh, God forbid. The thing is, a problem is a problem.

Never underestimate your problem. Because someone else has much bigger problems. Mine is nothing. So I shouldn't worry about it. No, that problem is still a problem, but on the other hand, let me tell you how I motivate myself. At least it works for me. I say, "I exist because of this problem." Because if this problem didn't exist, this vacuum, this void wouldn't exist. Let's talk about 212 VC.

In Türkiye, in this geography, in the world, so much... If there weren't so many ups and downs in this region, in a region full of such valuable people like you, there would be 100 VCs. I wouldn't have any work left. Because of all these problems, a guy like me and Numan came along, and luckily for us . You were forced to make us partners . Because there's no one else.

So, most of the things we worry about are the same worries that make me who I am and make me possible, the worries that give me this life we were talking about earlier. We have so many of these Mohammuts, I have to do this every hour of the day . So, thinking that the topic could go in very different directions, I'm asking questions. I, man, I tend to digress a lot.

So you guys take it. The best thing is... well, we don't really have a topic, but since the direction is already going in the places we want, we're thinking about how much we can touch on these sensationalist things , like, "I wish we weren't all dressed in white," and so on . My friends told me to definitely wear white, but don't wear a hat. If you wear a hat, it's not very clear.

It's not clear who's the host and who's the guest. Of course, those hosts wear hats. In our case, either the guest wears a hat or the hosts wear one, we need to decide on that. Okay. Great. Yes. By the way, I'm curious about something. For example, when we really started the investment process, we had a meeting with you. Even then, your energy was very high. Although I remember you saying, "I don't want to join Martek anymore," you gave us incredible energy, enthusiasm, and life force, just like now .

I've been doing this for 15 years—and because you said 15 years, it's a longer year, 212 years—15 years. What are the things that allow you to maintain this motivation, this energy, this perspective of "I exist because of these problems," etc.? How does it continue? It's you. Look, we get 80 to 100 applications a week, and I've been doing this job for 15 years, and as I said, for 15 years, thanks to you, I've maintained this energy.

I actually think there's a reflection because I was lucky, and as I said, thankfully he partnered with me . We founded 212, and thanks to that, we both see the cream directly, right ? We're not just in Türkiye anymore in this geography and in the world. We 're in America, we're in Asia. And I think it's something. I do n't know if it's accurate to call it an exchange, but it is .

I'm reflecting the energy I receive from you back. Now, I'm going to carry what I'm receiving from you to the next meeting, and that's how it continues, and it motivates me a lot. There's nothing else that motivates me. There are so many people who think this is for money, for venture capital, etc., etc. I think the most important word in venture capital is the capital side. Because it has nothing to do with capital.

Seriously, it doesn't. Especially in our size, in Turkey and this geography, the money being played, when you look at the money being played, when we look at America, at Asia, it's not just money. Plus, when you look at the work we've done in the past, the work Numan and I have done, this is another dimension. This Much longer, much smaller numbers, much riskier, etc., etc., that's the left side.

But on the other hand, on the right side, there's the opportunity to talk to you every day and learn about brand new problems. There's meeting completely different personalities. There are moments when I say "aha!" a hundred times. There's learning about topics I've never heard of or encountered in a week. There's meeting people who have achieved great things with very limited resources . There's getting some energy from them and passing it on to you in the next meeting.

So that's how it continues. It's like a cycle, is n't it? There's an engine, and you are the fuel, and the problems here, the gaps here, the fact that we can fill some of these gaps, even a very small one, is what still motivates me. It was a very long answer, but it was still a very good one. Of course, I would also like to add that there are many people in the VC world who don't think like you .

I mean, there are definitely people who approach it the opposite way. So I think your perspective and my approach are very valuable. There's something else . I'm sure, by the way, right or wrong... No. This is how we do things, and this is how I do them. Even Norman might not see it that way . So there's absolutely no right or wrong . Mine is like this, someone else's is wrong.

I don't have that kind of mindset . I work this way, and I can say this very easily: the work we do is necessarily very selfish . It's a job that has to be done selfishly . Why? If it were about money, it would be easy, right? You work, you earn money, you work, you earn money, and then after a year, after 6 months, etc., etc. The other day I attended a training session for people who want to become VCs.

Günce kindly invited me. My question to the participants was: Do you have 15 years to spare? If not, don't get into this business. Everyone else stayed because Günce was looking at me like that, etc. Why 15 years? Because the investment life of a single fund is at least 10 years. So if you want to survive, you need to start a second one. So there you have it, two funds for a minimum of 15 years.

Therefore, money can't be what motivates me here. Because nothing I do today will have a return on investment in a year's time compared to what I do tomorrow. It won't happen. So I motivate myself in another way . As I said, I keep doing it, but I repeat it. Being with you all, feeling useful. When I open the office in the morning, when I make the coffee, being able to say, "What awaits us today?

How happy I am!" These little excitements. In general, I don't know, maybe it hasn't been 15 years since I started a startup. When I look at this industry, VCs, startups, etc., it seems to me that none of them are really done for money . Especially for money, there are completely different sectors. You work hard and quickly, and let's not forget that luck is a huge factor. Of course, not everyone makes money, but making money, that's what I always say.

Making money is also a huge goal, in my opinion. Money isn't something you earn in Turkish. Money is something you make. Americans and English say "making money ." Yes. Making money. Money is something that is made, but if you go into banking, consulting, or law, and you put in the time, effort, and labor you spend, multiplied by the percentage of success... A much higher return. Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's why this business is never about money, and entrepreneurship is the same for me, who has to work symbiotically with you. No one, if they have even a little bit of common sense, can get into this business, entrepreneurship—and I humbly consider myself an entrepreneur— for the money. It's not logical to get into it anyway. People like us, with completely different motivations, get excited when they see a problem, like when Türk Telekom was laying cables, and I went and tried to help .

Then I thought, "Oh, I have my podcast. I need to come here." I ran back to the office, and so on . People who get excited when they see a problem, who have anxieties like, "How can I solve this? If I don't solve it, who will?" are the ones who work on this, and sometimes you make money. You think, "Wow, that's great," but you can't do anything with that money most of the time.

Look at the big names in the world, the ones we've all heard of and those we haven't, who have made a lot of money . Believe me, when you look at it, what have these people done with all that money? Have they done what many people only dream of? Have they done anything? Most of them don't do anything . Because it wasn't about money anyway. It's a completely different kind of problem.

I don't even need to explain it to you. I'm sure. I hope yours is the same. We already have this, and we've touched on it repeatedly in our previous meetings and podcasts, and it's really nice to see that others think like us, and that makes us happy, to be honest. If falling in love with a problem, getting excited about solving it, and doing something related to it is valuable, then that's great .

It might not be valuable. It can be. You can call it entrepreneurship , VC, or something else, but really, that energy you feel when you wake up in the morning – I came from a corporate background, from corporate companies, so I understand that very well. There's a saying, "your feet drag when you wake up in the morning." That's right. Now we're also working from home. Imagine living at home every morning; it's so depressing to be doing something you love .

So it's better. We also put money in second, third, or even fifth place. We're holding on. Barış too . His bike was stolen recently, but despite that he's still like, not buying a Tesla, not doing anything like that . I'm not buying a Tesla . I don't have a car, man. I'm 50 years old. Haven't I ever owned a car in my life? Not even one .

That's great. By the way, I don't think it's that illogical to own one in a place like Istanbul, that's a separate issue, but I don't need to tell you that I agree with you . I'm 100% on the same side. And I mentioned something in another podcast. A large portion of these exiting founders either throw themselves into other projects at the end of the day, or they don't reach that point of thinking, "I've exited, now everything is solved," you know, a happy exit founder type of founder .

I can't repeat the phrase exactly, but it's true. that really struck me as true, it's really true. People who have already reached that point and done something, usually fall in love with a problem or something else, and then they keep creating new projects, and that loop... It's like a cycle, you find a problem, you solve it, you find a problem, you solve it... there's a world like that, and when you ask anyone about it, that money isn't even on the agenda, it's not even a topic of conversation .

You need to shift your focus to something else. And do you know what the worst part is? The worst part is you've exited. Your brain is still stuck on that thing, that motivation, wanting to reconnect, and you start to stop. Then you fall into a huge void. The lucky ones reconnect. They reconnect with something else, they start an association, a foundation, etc. A small startup, a big startup, they open a restaurant, a hotel.

They redirect that energy somewhere else. The unlucky ones can't do that. I see that a lot, unfortunately. They have money, they're known, they're recognized, etc. They have success, whatever that means. But somehow, they're tired, exhausted, demotivated, life circumstances, whatever it is, there could be 100 things, right? There could be reasons. They can't shift to the next thing. That's very bad. Okay, I'll ask you something. In the part of our podcast we didn't film, we were talking about...

How you want to calm your mind, if that's the right way to put it, and you're by the Bosphorus... Let's say I want to spend some time relaxing on the bench, in a certain mindset, and I'm trying to connect this with something else. For example, the desire to engage in activities, the desire to work on something, and this tranquility – are these things that can coexist, or is it more like you have to choose one?

Is there a dilemma there? That's a very good question, by the way. Now, for me, silence doesn't equal my brain doing nothing. For me, silence means having a lot of time to think about something . Finding a problem, focusing on it. We call it hyperfocus. Because if I find a problem I really enjoy, I actually shut everything down. I don't hear anything, I don't listen, and my mind becomes silent.

Like an engine, you know, you start to stop hearing and not listening to anything, like that kind of thing. It's not like I'm just going to stare blankly at the Bosphorus and not think about anything. No. I want to have things in my head that give me great pleasure . I don't want the buzzing of life, the daily hustle and bustle – email, notifications, Slack, WhatsApp, etc. – the 1000 tones of chatter around me, and I can focus on the topic or topics that give me pleasure at that moment.

Actually. I mean, it's not about being idle, it's about being able to focus on things that give me pleasure and make me feel happy . For me, it's silence. It's not really like a vacation. It's just a vacation for me. Yes, exactly. It's like deep work, actually, getting rid of all those stimuli, let's say unwanted stimuli. You know, when I sit in front of the computer or in the office, there are so many things pulling me from all sides, and I want to reduce that.

That's why I was talking to Barış earlier. Berkay was late for some reason . I told him that. My goal is to completely give up the computer someday, hopefully within the next year or two . huh. And just be on the phone. Not for talking . I mean, I want to have my phone in my hand when I need processing power . But preferably, I want to be as free as possible from all these external factors and have the chance to focus on the topics I really want to focus on and that are necessary.

By the way, I think resting is already one of those things that is misunderstood, like Berkay was saying we were on vacation, but it's related to the outside world. I think resting is when you don't think about anything and just your brain... Turning it off and throwing it away isn't about watching TV for hours or lying on the couch, but I think real relaxation is about being completely detached from all stimuli, being alone with yourself, and actually just having a flow where your brain is doing mental exercises, thinking about things, taking you to places you don't know.

That's what they call a flow state, right? Exactly. That's what I think true relaxation is, being in that flow state. And that's what it is for me too. I mean, I want to look at the sea, not think about anything. Oh, life is so beautiful. It usually only lasts about 10 minutes at most. It probably doesn't even last 10 minutes. So, yes, I want to look at the sea, but I want to have exciting thoughts about things that excite me that day .

Anyway, that's all I want . Sometimes it's even like this: for example, Berkay and I have been trying lately to create spaces where we're not directly in front of the screen, like running, long walks, plants, etc., and sometimes you don't even know what you're thinking in that moment . There's nothing in your head . But then suddenly something comes to mind... From behind, it says to you, "Here's the solution to that problem you've been working on for the last two months."

There's an excitement, and what a feeling, right ? It's like, I'm just entertaining myself most of the time. Anyone looking from the outside would probably think I'm crazy, but that's why it's so selfish. Again, the things that make me happy, the essential things for 212, for example, what should 212 be in the next 5 years, where should it be in 10 years? That's what I want to think about.

Where is the world going? We currently have funds, alchemy, next, etc., etc. What should we do with them ? What should we do with the teams? What should we do with me? Should we get rid of me? Should we put someone else in my place ? I want to think about these things. But then an email comes. Another pitch comes. I love it. Don't get me wrong.

My favorite thing is still talking about entrepreneurship. But sometimes you have to leave aside some of that enjoyable feeling and really challenge your brain, trying to think about the next steps, the future. That's what I'm like when I 'm sitting on that bench, looking at the sea... The moment I looked and could really focus on just those two important issues. I'm going to slightly change the subject here .

And actually, touching on what you said earlier, you've been in the startup world for a long time, and from what we've seen, you're also very involved in this, please consider us as the key players. We might be seeing things wrong, though. Especially in startup VCs, there's a certain flow. You get a budget, you get investment. You burn it, you burn it, you burn it. You get a point where you need another one.

You get that one, you burn that one too. There was a craze for burn, for growth through serious money burn, for scaling very quickly. Then it decreased a bit in recent times. Some big players, especially, started talking more about metrics like profitability . But in this ever-changing world, is our perspective correct ? That's the first question, of course. Secondly, do you think these growth strategies based on burn are still working systems today, or is there a point where you think the perspective needs to change, or is it already changing ?

Let me ask a long question. So, we actually wanted to ask this, but we were just going about it . So, with investment money, should we gamble or bet, and so on, burning the money, right? Please don't gamble or bet with your investment money . It's against the law, dear friends. Let me put that here. After this disclaimer, please, please, let's put this here as a public podcast message, please, a public broadcast.

So, we have this tendency in Türkiye. By the way, don't misunderstand, I understand your problem very well, but most of the time we only look at one side. Now, I have a very sexy concept, you see. Like, they took 1 million dollars, not 10 million, and they're burning it like crazy. How do they burn it? What do they do with that money? Do they fly away? Do they escape?

Do they eat? They can go on a joke until morning, right? How? How did we burn it? How did we burn it? Now everyone is doing token maxing, token maxing, etc. This is actually a very easy analysis. How much money is there? How much are you burning? In what timeframe? The other side is important. Now, is it possible to burn money to grow ? What does that mean?

How much growth ? At what rate of growth? How healthy growth? Right ? So, yes, growth is great, but if your marketing expenditure or token max drops the moment you cut the burn, then your gain is wrong. But look at Amazon, right? I still give Amazon the most . Yes, yes. Look at where Amazon, which has touched and will touch all our lives for many years, has come.

This was the biggest thing about it. For years, when Amazon was founded, they were burning money. This money isn't going anywhere. What will happen? etc. etc. And I think for about 67 years, Amazon hasn't been profitable, but when you look at it, its cash flow is positive. What does it do? It does Kapex. It goes and invests. It opens warehouses. Investment, investment, investment, investment, and today, where it is is clear.

So yes. You Could we perhaps think of it like this? For example, I watch a lot of SpaceX now... For example. For some reason, I'm obsessed with SpaceX. SpaceX really impresses me . I sometimes sit and cry quite a bit when I'm going upstairs like this. I don't know why. It affects me so much, that's probably why. But there is a nose. He has an incredible nose.

Isn't it? And you end up going into space. If it were just about landing and taking off like that, without actually going into space, that would be a bit strange. And you're polluting the world, killing birds and all that stuff. We would say, "May God curse you, Elon Musk." But today, if you look at Starling, there are more than 10,000 Starlings currently in space . This man, by burning this fuel with this burn, by designing different missiles, has achieved this today.

Therefore, we need to focus on the other side . Yes. What were the results of the burn, and how sustainable is it? How sustainable is what you're doing? Because that's what we see. That's why I'm here, if you look closely . Money is essentially a commodity. There is money in the world, and that money is waiting for a return. What are the essential elements for a return?

Sustainable success. Isn't that right ? Otherwise, you just burn it and it's gone. Let them bring the three of us together. Let them give us 100 million dollars . Let them say, "Do whatever you want, just keep it burned." We'll burn it. We 'll be eliminated, incredibly. It walks in the present moment . Nothing will happen. So the topic is, yes, we have money, let's burn it.

But what are we going to do with this money? If we can obtain a higher value with the money someone has given us, then it makes sense to create a sustainable value . Otherwise, it makes no sense. Meanwhile, we made this mistake . He says this very casually. What was our mistake? In our first fund, we have 4 e-commerce startups. What was the purpose of the investments we made between 2012 and 2014, arkadaşlar?

Türkiye is empty. We can only move forward if we dominate these vertical lines . We will attract even more investment . Two false assumptions. They did grow, yes, but the moment we cut that nose, that gas, unfortunately the revenues there couldn't stay put. The second biggest mistake. They grew, but much larger funds didn't show interest. That's why they were n't successful. By the way, there is a company like Trendyol that did this and created the greatest value that Türkiye has produced today .

Let's not forget that either. But that does n't mean all companies will necessarily be successful if they create very large noses . Therefore, Trendyol is actually a success story that needs to be followed very closely, understood, and even read—I wish there was a book about it so we could read it—when viewed today. So, with different pivots and very serious burnouts, is Trendyol's value today around $10 billion ?

I guess so. Perhaps even more. We need to take a look . And this has happened with very serious burns . That's the end of the podcast, apparently. Baz podcast last zidi. His voice. No. I absolutely agree. So, that was one of the things we kept going back and forth on, discussing amongst ourselves, even before the investment process began. Because I've seen it very closely in my previous jobs and so on, that moment when the burn is cut off, when the investment isn't easily recouped in the second round, or the third or fourth round, whatever it is, and then suddenly those downsizings, those attempts to squeeze every last drop out of what you have, the growth suddenly coming to a halt, etc., so it always made us think about many things.

So, is this the truth? How do we ensure sustainability? What is sustainability? It will be a product, so why would you use it for burnout? You have to do it to reach many more people , to create a much better product , to do it before anyone else does, so that it has meaning. If the product you're offering is already similar to another product, and the customer you're approaching can easily leave you or switch to someone else much cheaper, then unfortunately it doesn't make much sense.

No, that's absolutely true. That's absolutely true. I think that's the part where it's easy to say, but difficult to live by in reality. So, it's about achieving that sustainability. Especially considering the speed and other factors in this world, I'm not even going to get into the AI side of things . First of all, thank you for your kind words. So I'm still at that point again .

It's a crossroads, you know, which way to go? On one side there's a person who's figured everything out, and you guys... well, there are so many really... topics that are really confusing, so as we talk, I think, who knows, if the three of us got together and talked, we might do something else, because it's really going somewhere else, okay, let's make peace, I'll leave 212, you guys come to Fardal, what's happening?

Okay, fall down. It comes out like this: shock, shock, shock. Hardal returned the money. Ali Karabey from 212 swallowed something new, put something new in, stels we need to make them sick, like on April 1st or something . Oh, I'll say it here. Yes. That would be amazing, by the way. That would be great, thank goodness. At a time like this, everyone is writing "stalk" on their links and stuff.

TRUE. He already gave it back. I think it's unbelievable. Just that alone . Yeah, exactly. I don't want this. We are sitting on the bench. Look, it's like a transfer fee, you know, like we're paying money to get you or something . Of course, that will be necessary, you know. But the thing is ready. So, our thing is ready. there are some nice benches in Kadıköy, in that trendy area.

We'll choose each one there. There isn't anything like that either . Remote control doesn't seem to be working, anyway. Of course . Yes. What more could you want from an office with a sea view? What more could there be, right ? Alright. I'll ask you something. So, if we bring the topic back to the world of investment and... well, we see a lot of that in particular.

So, there's also the marketing side of things, and then there are the success stories, the real success stories. This is a really big trend road, and it's one of them. On the one hand, for example, Swipeline releases an investment news story almost every day, and we also release one in some way. That's why I can't really do much about it . I can't disperse the rain. Continue.

This is great. Yes. Yes. You deserve peace . Is it really the case that getting that investment is seen as a success, and are there still things like that going on? Actually, nothing will come of this. This project and the company's potential are clear, but do you think there's an aspect of it that's still being hyped up as a success story ? I'm actually curious about your perspective on this situation .

You received that investment, it grew, it received another investment, but I'm really curious about your perspective and feelings regarding that side of the business where only investment news is discussed . I'll do something very briefly, like a quick translation, like a translation from Turkish to Turkish, like what Barış said. So, at Ezum, we have been actively following all the investment news in Türkiye for the last two years, and we are really looking at what those investment areas are doing .

It's as if you're doing a competitor analysis, but in some areas where we're really struggling to see the added value, and especially in what I would call the AI bubble, which is comparable to the DKAN bubble from years ago, do you think these topics are being exaggerated to this extent ? Why is all this hype worrying us? This is something we're actually curious about. So, should we be worried in a place with so many AI bubbles?

Do n't worry. Now, there's something else... Now, I remember the past, I mean, I remember the years 2009-2010 very well. We had absolutely no news about ourselves or the sector in question. It's already good because you're calling it an investment in news equivalents . Isn't that right? Is there a lot of investment news? And it began to slowly rise upwards. I prefer this. So, let's have more investment.

The goal is to make this financial resource, this VC angel money, accessible to more people so that somehow a few of them, maybe 10%, can advance to the next stage. Even if he doesn't come, at least he'll learn something this way. He should do his next job better. So, for example, right now I'm not looking at it and saying, " Oh, this is being exaggerated," or anything like that .

Meanwhile, it's certain that Eay has a father . We all say the same thing already. Everyone's saying it. Büyüker says so too. There's definitely going to be an explosion here . We experienced the same thing at DATC. How did we experience the same thing with crypto? We're 100% going to experience this again here. But I think that on that day, some will survive, those who genuinely create value, those who have created a sustainable business model as we just discussed, and that will be the next Amazons, the next trend routes for Turkey, the next people, etc. If you look at it, when we invested in your sector in 2016, by the end of June 2016, Martech no longer existed.

There were none left in the world. Because so much investment had been made. None of them had had any major consequences. It was the last of our money in the fund . We had every reason not to do it, and yet we did. If we had been two weeks late, we wouldn't have done it; it's a big deal, and we're already experiencing the events of July 15th today.

Today would have been July 15th. Türkiye had already woken up from its hibernation, and most likely I wouldn't be speaking to you today . TRUE. That's why I prefer it. There are many valuable people like you in Türkiye and in our region. There is some savings, albeit small. Only a very small portion of this accumulated knowledge reaches you. Make sure this reaches him, brother. Let it be explained in detail.

Let it be celebrated more than it deserves. Fine. But all that matters is that you receive these investments, which you deserve to be much bigger, and a few of you, like SpaceX we just mentioned, will become successful. Become the SpaceX of your industry. It can't be any other way, because that's the point. Let's think about it later, did we applaud too much ? Were 99 out of 100 unnecessary ?

Yes, that was right. But sometimes this hype is necessary. And remember, I've mentioned this in a few places. Currently, approximately 1% of GDP is channeled to technology companies annually in both developing and developed markets . Today, Türkiye has an economy that is even larger, exceeding one trillion dollars annually. One percent of that is $10 billion annually, folks. There is significant investment in the defense industry. I don't know the exact amount on the technology side, but let's assume that $5 billion of this is money that should go to other non-defense projects .

Right now, we've been approaching $12 billion for about two years in the last 15 years. So it seems we need much larger sums of money for him to come here . So it seems we need to further develop that hype and the companies that emerged thanks to it for this to happen. Otherwise, it's difficult to do it. I was explaining this in the years 2011-2012. I used to wish we saw entrepreneurs on the front page of the newspaper, not footballers or politicians .

Because I was saying that the ones who really deserve to be celebrated are the entrepreneurs. Right now, even if slowly, at least you're appearing in magazines, journals, and newspapers, in a way you deserve. Let's have more of this. Let's say, for example, that out of these 100, 99 weren't, but this one actually became a space. The rest is easy, of course. Honestly, my perspective on myself has completely changed now, and...

Well, congratulations to you, Barış. I wish you would contribute something too, then I'll think something will change soon. Thank . I'm just kidding you. Misunderstanding. No, no, really, I honestly didn't say that to myself. " I've never looked at the situation from this perspective," I said, brother. Because there's a good thing about hype. Of course, I'm going to get to the negative side. Strange amounts of money are being received from undeservedly high valuations, etc., but sometimes something good comes of it.

Sometimes, if it's not him, something happens with one of the people working there . Look at the success stories in Türkiye today . Many of them are people who came from other companies and started something new. Let's not forget that either. So that's why it's such a long process, but it needs to start somehow. I see my role that way too. So those steps need to be taken, those goals need to be scored, so that champions can emerge one day.

It doesn't work any other way. There's no shortcut there. There is no shortcut. Scoring some goals and overcoming some obstacles there is like raising a child. I assume you don't have any children yet. Those children need to fall, they need to have nosebleeds. He needs to break his knee so that he gains confidence, his body develops, and he doesn't have much bigger accidents. If he does, he should be prepared.

Let's look at the situation from that perspective. That's great . That's exactly the kind of answer we wanted to hear, at least. But whatever you do, don't gamble that money away. So, you saw that there was something like that, we worked on it. We're going to Las Vegas. Red or black ? Pavilion. In the nightclub, the nightclub and all that, it's beautiful, run run and all that .

Yes. Very good. Bravo. No way! Well said! As I've said many times, this is a topic that I want to sit down and think about a bit more right now We also look at it from that perspective constantly. That's why it's so great that the whole thing is getting sensationalized or announced. It's remarkable to observe that within our ecosystem, both on the VC side and the entrepreneurial side, there's a real gap between the blind and the deaf, but it's actually a beautiful ecosystem nonetheless.

In the last 5 years or so, especially with social media, there used to be only forums, or even no forums at all. Given that these things are known through magazines like this, it's really great that everyone is currently receiving or making investments in rapid succession. This motivates us a lot . Our only concern was on the AI side. So, AI experts, with even the smallest update, can take those companies that have been invested in to a bad place.

But what you said opened my mind too. So you really need to concede a goal so that you can score in the next match . You can either throw it away or change your tactics. So, I... I got what I wanted . Well, I owe money too. May God forgive me . But just think about the trend line, man. Exactly. How to make fun of the trending road.

Who are their investors? I am not an investor. I am one of them. Is it worth paying money here? This guy can't make any money. That's the negative side of it, anyway . We talked and talked and talked and talked about gross margin, and today the biggest success story Türkiye has produced is in the field of technology. That's why I think we need to play it. If you want great achievements, if you want to go to space, you'll have to burn down a city.

Definitely. Definitely. There's nothing to say. Health. To briefly summarize, we have a question that we usually ask in such a situation. And that's it. So, lately, there are three objects, people, or something that inspire you, right? There are already so many things that inspire us. Yes. 3+2 would also work. It doesn't matter . Since I have hundreds of them, I'll just choose three for you then. The last 24 hours, right?

Perfect. It'll be the last hour. So this wasn't the end of the road for me, it motivated me, but that coffee was good . We need to go on the offensive for peace. We need to provide motivation right now, and we have a duty to do so. Provide motivation. Provide motivation. I'm the one who ended up owing the most, so maybe it's the podcast. Excuse me, friends.

It's the same thing. I keep score here, like 10 against 0 or something. We were crushed, in other words. Estafur, what are the things that actually motivate me to be like this normally? As I mentioned at the beginning, people who try to achieve great things with limited resources motivate me a lot. Entrepreneurs, NGOs, in other words, those who deal with very big problems, topics that nobody wants to tackle, that they want to turn away from – no, as Berkay said earlier, I'm in love with this problem.

People who say "I'm going to solve this" really motivate me on a daily basis. Those two athletes motivate me a lot. Professional athletes. Mete Gazoz. Do you realize how utterly insane Mete Gazoz's actions were? He can't see the target even though he's 70 meters ahead . The guy is shooting an arrow at a target he can't see, about 1.5 meters below, maybe 1.20 meters in diameter, from a distance of 70 meters, with the wind blowing outside, and we're saying, "Oh, he hit the bullseye!"

And we don't consider how much effort, years and years of repeated work, has gone into this. That's probably the main theme for me anyway. Following the successes or failures of people who have gone through long , very difficult processes that often don't understand the outside world, and observing their struggles, makes me feel very good. I just explained it. Watching SpaceX motivates me incredibly. For example, watching it climb, come back down, land, close up, or descend onto the platform in the water gives me incredible motivation.

I was just walking in Kurçeşme. There are baby barnacles around that can't fly yet. I sat and watched them. They have wings, they're huge, and crows are messing around with them. Time can't fly yet. His mother is watching this from a distance. Oh dear, look what we've done, how could we have done this, and so on and so forth . I watched him for quite a while, wondering whether he should go to the sea or run.

I watched her struggle. Things like that. This state of struggling, this state of striving, this attitude of perseverance despite everything, is what motivates me the most. I don't know, it sounds a bit confusing to explain, but it's more like an obsession with a subject or anything in particular. Exactly. I guess they're all the same, aren't they? It's an introduction, like when we say "dog," where you're weak.

What is the Turkish translation of "underdog"? Well, there must be some. So, is it a slum, is it ugly? Such a thing exists. No, no. Is it possible? No. So, in situations where you're weak, not good enough, and, well, where you don't look like a top-tier player from category B, I'll approach everything with that madness, that ambition, that hunger. I will tear down this wall. People, beings who say H. For example, I highly recommend it.

Well, I don't know if you like sculptures, but Michelangelo has some very beautiful sculptures . Now everyone likes David very much . I don't look after David when I go there. Because is David really that perfect? Such a handsome man would stand there like that, and so on. Like, some guy who's really tall, thin, handsome, and all that. Life isn't like that. If you go to the side corridor, you'll find unfinished sculptures there .

Where have I ended up? Michelangelo had five slave statues in marble, some of which are still in the marble. Go and check on them. I get motivated by him. So that's what he's trying to do. His muscles are now about to tear, as if he's trying to break marble. Types that are trying to emerge from within. His muscles are huge, but his head is stuck inside. Here's the atlas.

He's trying to carry the sky and all that stuff, on the one hand . This struggle, this fight—whether it's to go to space, to become great in your field, to dive to the bottom of the sea , or for Mete Gazz to hit the next target—that years-long struggle in athletes, despite all kinds of injuries and impossibilities, motivates me incredibly . So, could it be Sisyphus? Sisyphus. Yes.

Yes, of course, but there's a bit of idiocy involved there too, Sposta. Because you're actually heading towards something fruitless, again and again. Exactly. I want things that actually have a result, or at least things where you can see the result . Oh, speaking of Sif, there's also the issue of Sif Post, which I think is another aspect of the matter. So it's given to Sisyphus as punishment, and when he removes the stone, he enjoys it .

Oh, exactly. Or, as the saying goes, "What if Sisyphus enjoyed it?", there's no way he could have done it without enjoying it anyway Exactly. That means you have to love the pain. Isn't that right? It's not about liking the destination, it's about seeing it; the next day your body should ache, really. Oh yes, I did the right thing yesterday. When it doesn't hurt, you often think, "I guess we didn't do anything wrong yesterday."

Yes. oh, what kind of madness is this, by the way? Because who would say that it means struggling more, suffering more, etc., etc.? But this... but... you touched on a very good point. I don't want to dwell on it too much, but in English, there's really a development, for example, I gave an example from sports, we did sports and the next day our muscles ache, and that pain feels like it's causing harm, but it needs to happen.

Now, in order for it to grow like this, it actually needs to be pulled. Yes. But actually, when we talk about growth, well, in English, " tree" is a very nice word. That's exactly what it describes. So, that development and growth doesn't necessarily have to be a physical thing . It doesn't necessarily have to be anything else . So, even if it's psychological, for something to develop, something really needs to break down at some point.

So, maybe there's a deficiency in Turkish language skills, or something else, but focusing on this, constantly solving problems, embracing those problems and moving on with life in that way is a very good motivation, I think. I... I need to say that. I think, if you look closely, what is the real motivation? The main motivation is self-expression. Isn't it? Self actualization. Exactly. It is self- actualization. So that's actually the motivation there .

So who am I, what am I? What do I want to create? What do I want to work on? We just talked about this, that's all I'll say . There's something Cahit Arf said. They ask why I'm so good at math . He says... Everyone needs a place where they can forget about time, place, and life . "I discovered it in mathematics, and that's why I succeeded," he says.

Very i. Therefore, I hope everyone has benches where they can forget time, place, health, life, everything, while watching themselves as if they were immortal, and find the chance to create themselves in some way on that bench. It was a fantastic podcast. I think there can't be anything better I think there can't be anything better . Exactly. I don't think it could get any better. It went like that, just like it did for us.

That's how it is for us. I'll save it. Yes. Oh, I think well said! Let's cut it right there when we're editing, and I think we shouldn't add anything else at the end. Let it close by scanning the screen like this. Really I swear. We were very loyal to very little, to be honest. Thank you so much, both for your time and for your time and for the call.

How lucky I am. It was very good. It was incredible... let's just say it was a really great start to the day for me. How wonderful. Thank you so much to everyone who watched! See you later. Goodbye. Yeah.