Bootstrapping, and raising without wanting to be a unicorn

Hello. Hello. What's up? I am good. You should be asked about yourself. We wore the same things, didn't we? We wore the same hoodies, remember? I think... if we make it in two parts, we can change it. It might look like the photos were taken on different days. That would be nice. You wear it first. I'll wear it next time. Or, if we wear the same hoodies in every episode, it will never be clear which one was filmed at what time.

See, that makes sense too. Yes. But this way, I need to keep your beard and my hair the same length all the time. Yes. Yes. But it's difficult, but I think it can be resolved . We'll figure it out somehow, with all the "Eyayla meyayla" stuff. Let's just get through all this . Yes. Or we could wear green t-shirts and turn each episode into something different We're setting up quite a few things, aren't we?

So, inside, like production and all that, like Pixar studios and all that, we're going to shoot a webinar, we're going to shoot a podcast. Okay, so I'll get to the point. How are you doing, by the way? Are you ok? How's it going? I'm fine, honestly. We've been working well together these last few days. That's why I'm in a good mood . Well, it looks like it's going to be a nice April and May .

Me too, it's quite enjoyable. It's very enjoyable. So, when viewed from outside the events, it seems enjoyable, but the events inevitably affect everyone. So, we're talking about the company, our potential customers, our existing customers, everyone around us, but hopefully we'll get better. Now, this week's topic is actually somewhat related to these events, but since it's a question that's generally asked, we... Hardal, of course, is not only a tool, a product, but also a company.

Why did we establish this company in America? Why did one of our companies based in Türkiye have to be acquired by a company we opened in America, and how do these stock option processes work? The question of "What didn't happen in Türkiye that we opened up in America?" is actually quite a broad and extensive topic. So, that's our topic for this week, sir. What do you think?

So, let's start from here. Why did we feel the need to open a company in America? Brother, I'd like to take a step forward and even start with this. Why did we receive investment? Because actually, one of the initial points that kicks off this whole process is the investment acquisition process. So, since we're getting investment, let's think long-term and all that, and that's how we ended up setting up a company in America.

So, I'd like to briefly mention one of them . If it's okay with you, well, as you remember, our goal for a long time since we first launched was to boost performance . So, it was about continuing with our lives without receiving any money from outside sources. Perhaps we'll discuss the investment process in detail in another episode . But then we realized that in order to reach our desired goal, we needed to increase our existing cash reserves.

So, there's a lot of cash going back and forth, were the payments made or not? This will all come back to the topic of America a bit later. Then we said, "Okay, we need to get some kind of investment in this company, even if it's minimal." And then we entered an investment process . We secured the investment. But after receiving the investment, the following issue arose. Yes.

What will we give back to the people who invested in us ? So, are we going to give a stock or shares? Will something else be given? How will this agreement happen? And since one of the companies we acquired was foreign, they expressed some reservations about investing in a Turkish company. But it was already at the point of "it's possible," or something like that . The other one, well, he's an investor we like, and he said, "Whatever you're doing, I'll include that too."

Then we entered that process. Okey. We have a company in Türkiye, and we can expand abroad to certain locations. So, we could open it in America, we could open it in England, we could open it in Estonia, or we could keep it in Türkiye. Then other major problems in Türkiye actually came into play, didn't they? For example, let me give you an example, what was Strike's name?

What were those problems? For example, we couldn't even create an account on Stype. So, we were going to start with something called "right-wing," but we hadn't been able to make it something that people could buy with credit cards . So we were issuing invoices. Yes. Yes, there were returns. It was being cut incorrectly. Are we going to cut dollars? Will they pay in dollars? Will they pay in Turkish Lira?

But they're also asking for the IBAN number. You know, when you buy from corporate companies, you can just pay with your credit card. So we couldn't do it. That's why it had to be striped. And then there was this whole thing, you know, like, you pay the money, however you want to pay it . You know, if you want, we can issue an invoice, you can leave the money in front of Berkay's house at night, and all that...

It was all okay with us, actually. They leave them in white envelopes, right? They come with cars like Tofas (a Turkish car brand), stealthily, then drop off the car and drive away. So, as a result, we suddenly tried out certain systems in Türkiye. If I remember correctly, we tried integrating with a few local systems. It's both difficult, the commission rates are high, the systems are not flexible at all, and it's not a simple "buy and integrate" process.

No, you have to talk about this, do that, etc. And we started wasting a lot of time there . So, in this process, it's evolving because the topic is heading towards that process of specialization. So you're selling a product for $100. A product that costs $100 a month suddenly becomes a lengthy purchasing process, a lengthy legal process, and a lengthy payment process – all for $100. So, it's a process that could take 30 seconds .

Simply because we did n't have products like Stripe available and because, as you said, linking my credit card and making purchases wasn't very common in Türkiye, we suddenly found ourselves in this situation. And when you multiply that by 40 brands, suddenly we're okay with one brand . It takes us 1.5 months to get started on the project. From where? Because a $199 product involves legal department agreements and whatnot, payment process issues, and filling out this supplier form.

Did you fill it out and now log into the system? This is one of the biggest. Contracts, contracts, they all seem to be trying to manipulate us . It's actually suitable there too . So, it's a system where you can just say "I've read and approved" and move forward; it's not so much about the money, it's about starting a project by saying "I've read and approved," but every single sentence in the contract is now being scrutinized by different departments .

So, there you said 1 to 90 days. What does this mean? For example, what do you mean by data? People have started scrutinizing every single word like that. So I can understand that. Even if it's not a corporate entity, in bilateral inter-company agreements, this team is essential for reaching consensus. So, it needs to be understood. As the name suggests, you're making a deal. But... because more effort is being allocated than the added value of the product, due to regulatory problems.

Because they also need to be accountable for their processes when they are subjected to audits one day or the day after, and so on. We are actually preventing that there as well. Well, honestly, I think there's another, slightly different aspect to this . So, maybe this will sound a bit off-putting, but I think some law firms that work with certain companies also scrutinize those contracts to get the job done .

So I'm emphasizing this again . What are the actual chances of a $100 product ending up in court ? And if it's going to be taken to court, how crucial is it that it's somewhere else, not in Çağlayan? huh. And there are 150 more clauses like this coming back to us in an agreement. Oh my God, I mean, the law firm most likely spent 5 hours on that contract .

And then those 5 hours are like a game of " Watch, Watch". It became a ridiculous back-and-forth situation, and this is actually yet another obstacle we face in Türkiye . That's also about e-signatures . One of your favorite topics. Suddenly, Berkay's Fridays turned into half of that... thing. shipping and all that. Exactly. Take them. Did you give them to them? Has your package arrived? We sent it, but where is it?

Imagine, for example, you 're running a "sağas" (a type of social media platform). "Sağas," as the name suggests, is a concept where there are no team agreements, and people receive service on a self-service basis. So, you set a goal, for example, you say I need to reach 10,000 paid users. Okay, that's great. And just imagine, when you do this in Türkiye alone, you're dealing with 10,000 contracts.

10,000 signatures mean 10,000 shipments . Organizing this alone is a whole separate undertaking. Therefore, in order to eliminate these kinds of operational hand jobs, the entire regulation actually needs to change. But I do n't think that's possible right now either. So why did PayPal withdraw from Türkiye? I believe that both the monetary and regulatory aspects of why the Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency (BDDK) imposes certain limitations on specific bank practices are very significant factors .

There are legal aspects too, as you said. So, I'm honestly happy that at least these can be adapted into an automated format. And then there's the obvious thing. For example, you made a deal with a company in America. Brother, you 'll send the guy two copies of the contract by courier. Is he going to send one back then ? He won't buy it, though. He abandons the product.

It's quite expensive, I mean, the paperwork, it's our expense for 3 months, so the income for 3 months goes directly to that . Well, there are shipping costs, including delivery and pickup . So, it's not really about the monetary aspect, but rather that the document needs to be in a format that can be signed remotely. Even if you're paying for it for free. Even if such a thing doesn't exist.

It needs to be a concept that you can sign remotely, but you already have an e-signature. huh. But the other party may not have it, or the other party may genuinely want it wet . Of course, this is a bit of a strange situation. It's somewhat like there needs to be a hybrid solution, but I think there is. That is, there are hybrid systems where processes can be carried out with e-signatures, and you can also print out a document that has been e-signed and sign it as well .

But, relevant to our topic, none of these systems have a direct equivalent in Türkiye. If you are a limited liability company in Türkiye, none of this has any relevance. This is actually a bit frustrating . So, I think this is one of the biggest, if not the most critical, reasons for starting a company in America . Exactly. So, it all started with something like that. Well, these were already problems that were bothering us.

When the investment process was added on top of that, we already entered a search process. Then the conversation generally turned to that... Okey. We are establishing a company abroad. Where should we set it up? We spoke to someone who founded it in Estonia. We spoke to someone who founded it in America. We spoke with companies and so on and so forth . So, this is a law firm called Igniters that we trust, and it turned into something like an advertisement for Emre .

The link is in the description, folks. 10% discount. Well , thankfully, after talking to them, honestly, for us, I think when you compare, America is a bit more expensive. For example, setting up a company in Estonia, meaning establishing a company there plus the acquisition of a company in Türkiye and all that stuff, ends up being a bit more expensive. But it seemed like it would be healthier for us, especially in the long term, and that's why we made this decision.

We can compare opening a business from Estonia—for example, from Estonia—or from England, or from another country, not like comparing it to America, but rather to Turkey and other countries. Compared to Türkiye, we could even say it's much cheaper . Because the salty part is n't that thing. It's not just the costs associated with accounting processes, or the effort or fees involved in setting up a company .

It's actually a bit cheaper to be abroad because you can't seize the opportunities you missed in Türkiye . Of course . Also, because we haven't been able to benefit from anything, or at least not been able to benefit from anything, until today. That's what I was going to say too. People don't understand the concept, that's why. And there's also this thing, I think we need to be honest.

We didn't manage that thing very well either . I don't know, maybe go to a technopark. Well, there's Tekmer, that's Tekmer. Coscap, TÜBİTAK, whatever. Here's the company you founded, whatever it is, there are actually a lot of incentives, bonus payments, social security discounts, etc., from the service exporters' association, all of that we realized far too late. This is exactly what I was talking about. That's what I meant by what people didn't understand .

And then there's the effort, you know, maybe there's another part to it as well . We applied to TÜBİTAK, we made a presentation to Kostkeb, blah blah blah. So these are topics that require separate effort, and I think something like that isn't very feasible . Even though I was working on company growth and planning in addition to daily operational tasks—and we did work with consultants and others—I think it takes a lot of effort, and in the end, we came to a kind of decision about that .

So, the effort we expend to take advantage of those benefits there won't really take us to the next level , it won't get us where we want to be . Well, the other side made more sense then, when we put it in a way like that again. Because, if you remember, the last thing we said was, let's just stop everything, really, let's halt all the processes because we can't do it anymore.

We said we couldn't spare the time. It's a good job, by the way; other companies have people who specialize solely in these kinds of things. So, they're saying things like, "Oh, he's chasing incentive bonuses," or "He's applying to the service exporters' association." There's an event there, look, if we can show these events as trips abroad, like some association or ministry is supporting it, giving incentives and bonuses, etc., etc. There are actually a lot of things .

So, Türkiye, and its entrepreneurial ecosystem, or rather, the technology companies, have some really great opportunities presented to them. But it's a bit strange that, in order to benefit from this pattern, you have to quit your job, abandon your career, or leave aside potential opportunities abroad, and focus entirely on Türkiye, thinking and doing something here . Why is this a strange situation? He doesn't support that. Because, in a system that is inherently resistant to innovation, offering these services and benefits in such an environment yields no results.

And so, for example, PayPal being banned in Türkiye , us not being able to open the accounts we want , the lack of even a legal regulation to allow us to give our employees stock options, and so on . If I can't do these things myself, why would I spend a whole year trying to benefit from such a service in Türkiye just to get an office in a technopark for 2,000 lira a month ?

Yes. So much happens there, you really need to drop everything and go travel . Here's Teknark Technopark, and frankly, we need to be honest about this point as well . Even companies aiming for market dominance in Türkiye take their first step, or even before reaching that goal, to grow abroad. From where? Because it's more stable – well, stability in the world is debatable right now – but even if you want to focus on the Turkish market, if you can't reach the point you want, then it's really good to understand and learn about this ecosystem.

No lies involved. There are plenty of opportunities, but it's like... well, it's not that easy . So, every "yes" you say there leads you to say "no" in many situations, and even simpler, more straightforward things are very cumbersome in Türkiye. Even the accounting processes are very cumbersome. Well, we realized it when we moved to America. Meanwhile, just when you mention accounting, the accounting myth warns you right at the last minute .

I heard his voice then. I heard that too. He's here, by God! So, think about it, for example, you know... Compare banking processes in America with banking processes in Türkiye. For example, for example, we pay for something. We're not even involved. Well, for example, we pay an extra fee for printing on all cards even though we don't charge for them in Türkiye. For example, the worst-case scenario was that we couldn't shut it down.

We couldn't get it shut down either. In America, even though we requested a limit, a large limit was set because there was investment money in the account. it took about 3 days for the card to arrive from America. And you're basically gaining experience from that bank. So you don't worry about it . Well, you know how we have so many things, like mobile banking and all that, you don't have to worry about those things in those areas .

Which ones do we use? Here we have Brexit, here we have Mercury. huh. And there's nothing else besides Ziraat Bank and stuff like that, man. They are in Türkiye. Is n't what's happening in Türkiye quite absurd compared to what's happening in America, for example? So, when you compare our credit card limits at banks in Türkiye with those in Mercury, considering that a large portion of our salary payments, incoming and outgoing money, and all our cash flow was in Turkey...

Huh. Now we're transporting it gradually. I just did a quick calculation and there's a 7x difference between our credit card limits in Türkiye and in America, and the limits were much lower when we first opened them . So I can understand the banks' policy, too. So, a company starting from scratch shouldn't be able to get the limit it wants. Here are the limit policies and so on.

But there's a similar concept in America as well. It lowers your limit, it can lower it. Of course, there's no question of lowering the limit . in banks in Türkiye. So, it's a bit strict, and it's not really just about bank limits here. The point is that we can handle all processes without having to deal with a bank at all, and the only reason is that we have a company in America as our sole representative .

So, in Türkiye, are you a limited liability company or an authorized person of a company? No matter how important it is, you keep running into legal obstacles at every step . So even if you need the smallest document, you have to get it from the branch. I don't know where you need to get it from. There are these weird rules, like you both need to log in simultaneously through online banking and stuff like that.

While you're receiving the SMS, I need to approve something else at work or something like that. Think of it from the very basics, man. I, Barış, am a partner in a company. I can't access the company's credit cards. From where? Because the company's credit cards were opened in a strange, awkward way . One is assigned to you, and one is assigned to me. I had one little soldier's phone.

Exactly like that, bro. I'm trying to receive SMS messages there. I'm calling you, bro, to tell you you'll receive an SMS or something . So, it's really... crazy, you know, like, it's happening in banks too, by the way. You know how you open an account individually, without going to any branch? You just register your ID and everything. Now, they exist in banks in Türkiye as well, but I'll get to the point .

In technical processes, that is, how do we actually do things to obtain services from that company or that country, or how do we take steps to offer services? The fact that it doesn't involve us in any bureaucratic matters is a huge freedom. Yes. Whether it's between companies, between people and companies, or between companies and countries, we have never encountered any bureaucratic obstacles or bureaucratic processes at any stage .

Because everything is planned and organized. The minimum price you have to pay for shares is actually known, but when you ask how much you need to open a company in Türkiye, there is no official source. Well, you look in a lot of places online. I don't know, for example, Memurlar.net writes one thing, and Donanım Haber writes something else. He wrote something there. My accountant from some unknown number opened this account with that money, and so on.

So nothing is certain. So, for example, it's possible here, if you remember. So we weren't even sure about the capital increase for the company in Türkiye . Yes. We debated whether to do it or not. One of them, our accountant, is giving us some guidance. Now, what did anyone say to avoid doing that? But our lawyer says something else. We're talking about another type of accounting that we're familiar with.

He says something else. We ask about the other companies he owns. They all say something different. Half of them say they did it, half of them say they didn't . Half of them say you'll be penalized if you don't do it. Diarisi says to do it in 3 years , forget about it. Now, even that is something. It creates a blockage in the mind. Actually, I think that's what we've been trying to say from the very beginning .

Are these very difficult problems? Not. So, are these things unsolvable? Of course not. So, there's a solution to all of them. If you were to go in and put everything we've discussed so far side by side, you'd figure it all out effortlessly. But they're all things that occupy some part of your mind, really. I think it's that person who gets the most tired. Well, the fact that things have calmed down a bit there makes us happy, I think .

So, every topic we discuss takes some of the workload off our shoulders, that's why we're a bit like that. I think we're at the point where we're saying, "Yeah, this is good." Definitely. I'm quite happy with it, to be honest. Let's see. So far we haven't encountered any problems, but... I don't think the problems we might encounter will be... well, not that tiring... and if you want, we can pause here.

Yes. Well, let's say we'll see you in the next episode . Is there anything you'd like to say, anything you'd like to add, one last time ? Good morning my baby. Thank you very much . It was another great speech, I got really carried away towards the end. Yeah, that turned out great. Essentially, we created a product, we established a field, it progressed, it grew rapidly. We entered the investment processes and at some point, the need arose to move the company outside of Türkiye.

Actually, necessity arose from necessity. As a result of this necessity, we have tried to talk about both its benefits and advantages . Well, there are also disadvantages. The disadvantages weren't many, but whether it makes sense or not, we'll see. We're not necessarily saying you have to open a company abroad here. So, we're not interested in that kind of thing either, leaving our country and nation behind and opening something like that.

I think it's all about the pros and cons, that's the clearest way to put it . They all have advantages. I'd die for the sight of a blue bead on someone's head, let me just get into Türkiye from here . Let the sound play in the background . A new episode is coming in a year . Why did we return to Türkiye? Something like, "We closed down the company in America," and so on .

But, you know, we're walking all alone on the streets of San Francisco, aren't we ? We were homeless and all that . Exactly. Why did we go bankrupt, and so on. I think, in short, these are some of the biggest problems that people who want to take a step towards starting a new business will actually encounter . So, where should we start the company? We sometimes see blooming plants coming from Estonia .

So, electronically, there are people from other countries who are taking advantage of the E-Residency facilities, and the place where we opened ours was America. It has advantages, it has certain points. Let's just say we tried to address them. Well, I'll say goodbye until the next episode. Take care of yourself. See you later. Good luck. Bye bye. Full