It Doesn’t Have To Be Crazy at Work, applied to Hardal

So why did it close? No, it started. Why did it start again? We've started it again, haven't we? Gee. Ok . It looks great now . Exactly. How? That's probably good. Ok. Yes. Today's topic is... are we talking about the reflections of "it doesn't have to be crazy at work" in Hardal? What can we say? Let's put it that way. I think, I think it's a very good topic, but we could do something beforehand as well.

I think if we 're starting then, let me just do a... introduction . Yes. Well, Beyza should also get involved. Beyza, when you ask us questions, it would be nice if we could include you too. What are you saying? Okay, so you're silent right now. Okay, that's great. son. This just won't do. Is this an open mic? What is this? Why did that happen? Where are you joining us from?

Hello. I'm joining from Eyüp Sultan . My name is Mert. How are you doing, first of all? I hope you're doing well. We're fine, Mert. Okay, go ahead and ask your questions. How can we help? Well, I'm wondering about this. Is there data analytics? Data Analytics is not included. It is a business unit created solely for the purpose of controlling society . Thanks. Thanks. Pardon. Let's do this then.

Instead of the 'S', we need to give that 'live live' thing. Look, there's a link at the top. Let's take a look at it . Yeah, exactly. Let me edit this link. Mert should join in too. I think I posted it as a guest. Exactly. Mert, I've been wandering around looking for you. Has the link changed? Ah, it's changed. Let me see. I am coming. So, in that thing called "it doesn't have to be crazy at work," do you have any main headings like that?

Your image was there, but it's disappearing now. Why is peace happening like that, man? I don't know. I'll say this... You know that thing called a continuous camera? You need to connect it to the same Wi-Fi network. It was as if something like that existed. Oh, different Wi-Fi networks. Do you have a cable, bro? There's a cable. They're essentially the same. It's the same. Damn, our hat turned out great, bro.

I don't know if I noticed this either. You haven't commented at all, but my hoodie and t-shirt arrived, man. How did they get there? Son, I couldn't hear you! One second, bro. Very amateurish, really. We've become so amateurish, honestly . Wait, I changed my internet connection, so now I'm doing another camera test. That's it! Gözde's parents came, brother. I asked them. I already sent them the package.

That's great, man. I even have a... thing. my glass. After that, I have everything, including my coffee maker. Okay, let's get started. Let him come in then. Greetings everyone. Let's hope this podcast is n't the last podcast of 2025. Although, in the last podcast episode... welcome to the most current version. Welcome to the latest episode. So, what's up, Barış? What are you doing, bro? I'm fine, I'm really happy.

After a long break, I'm excited about our podcast, which is a third one . So what do you think about this? So we had quite a struggle until we found those third parties . Yes. I think we need to find a balance. It 's also nice with third parties. These versions where the two of us just bicker and talk are also fun. So, difference is good. How are you?

Super. Absolutely great! So, the team is growing too. Now that the team has grown, I really feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I'm extremely happy, I mean, that we've gone to this point, that we've evolved to this place. Oh, I'm happy! Honestly, it's going very well overall. For example, he was talking about the welcome kit you received. Exactly. For those who don't know, we now have a welcome kit.

We send it to everyone who joins the team. In fact, today we accidentally sent the wrong two to someone. The glass has arrived. We have so many now that we're sending two. Two of each. My glass arrived and it's lovely. For example, I think you 're drinking from an old glass right now. These kinds of glasses get upgraded, you know . Each time a cooler glass arrives.

That's why I have my hoodie, my mug, my t-shirt, everything . But we bring the coffee with us too. So, it comes full of coffee The coffee comes as a set – the beans, the machine, everything, even the chocolate! So, my treats are chocolate. I couldn't get it. Really ? That's great. We specifically chose that chocolate, you know. I don't know, I'd like to get a welcome kit like that .

I did get one, but I wish I could have gotten a kit like this at the other companies I worked for . Yes. Yes. I think it makes me very happy. For example, at one place I worked, they gave me a backpack. I probably used it for about 3 years. I resigned after 6 months. Tell him to give me the bag there too. You know, I was scared.

I wonder if they'll ask for the bag back. Because they included everything, including the laptop and all. They received it from God. They said the rest of the bag could be yours. That's why I kept using it . Wow, amazing things are happening! So, honestly, I'm very happy to be a part of this project and I want to thank everyone. Your camera broke again, but do you think he'll be able to fix it on air?

What are you saying? I think it'll arrive in about two seconds . You're stuck with something like a " three in one" advertisement, stuck in the glass. Well, at worst we'll just have a little fun sometimes. If you can hear me, there's no problem. Yes. Today we were talking about a duo we often mention, Jason and DH, who actually have a book called "Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work ."

It's a book that, well, touches on somewhat current business practices and company management methods, and while there's no reason why it doesn't have to be that way... We recommend it even if you haven't read it . it's a book that we absolutely love and enjoy, without any advertising revenue. We are actually trying to implement some of the approaches they use there at Hardal, or rather, we are basing them on.

How are we trying to do these things with a little Hardal? So, basically, how are we trying not to make the atmosphere too crazy? When do we fail? When will we achieve this? Let's just say we wanted to talk about this a bit, and Berkay, I'll give the floor to you for the opening speech. What are you thinking? You reread the book recently, did n't you? I reread it over the weekend.

So, actually, we say things like "we're not doing any advertising," but I think it's a concept that constantly needs to be advertised . Before we get to the concept, we can say this as well. So, in this case, DHH and Jason actually have more than one book together. This website, actually, should be e37s signals.com. When you go to that site, there's a tab called "books". They publish all the books they've written publicly there.

They're all open PDFs; anyone can read them in any format they want. They can buy them in print if they want, and so on. To briefly introduce the concept, it essentially focuses on the stages of company management, specifically the process of becoming a company, and how it relates to product management rather than just company management, illustrating this with an example . There are 78 different cases like this in the book.

There are 78 different examples, but generally speaking, the company is essentially a product, and when managing the company, it's like managing a product, like managing a product... what did you do? When did you read it? I first read it a few years ago. Then, when I talked to you over the weekend, to be honest, I couldn't finish it, no lie, but... well, I got about halfway through the book.

I noticed it again there . For example, there's something we actually did at one point, then stopped doing, but now I want to go back to it . That's the goal-setting part. So, there's a point they're making... I really like it there. he says. He says that if you constantly set goals like market share, competitors, and revenue targets, and keep analyzing your competitors, you end up in a strange, unpleasant predicament, and no matter what you do, you end up feeling like a failure.

But the approach you're referring to is to create a good product, and that product leads to good client success, good customer satisfaction— meaning people are happy, those who use the product benefit from it. If you focus on that, success will naturally follow. This is actually how Hardal was launched when it first came out . So, we launched it with the goal of creating a product that we ourselves and other brands could use and benefit from .

But as things progressed, we went to San Francisco, worked with other startups, got investment and all that, and suddenly the conversation turned to... When we started talking about things like, "What's your goal? How much are you growing? If you can't grow fast, you're not going to amount to anything," we suddenly found ourselves in a difficult situation. So, for example, set a target of $1 million. For example, our original goal was to reach $1 million by the end of this year .

We couldn't reach them. and that makes me feel really bad. Not having been able to reach it . It was noticeable, but not much. But when you look at it, that doesn't mean we haven't grown fivefold, right? There, I realized I wanted to refocus my attention back to things like this good product and good customer satisfaction . That's the logic there, anyway. As for our target, we initially aimed for 1 million when we had 100,000.

Yes. We said let's eat ten times the amount, basically. But I mean, we've reached 500 by 500! We've even reached 600. We reached 600,600. So growing 6 times is like setting a high target and it seems like it came out smaller, but it's an irrelevant target. By the way, setting a target of 1 million didn't make any sense, did it? Yes, setting a high target is nice, but it doesn't make any sense.

Even if we were 2 million, it wouldn't matter. Exactly. There's nothing mathematical about it. We didn't factor that into our calculations. Pipeline, exactly. There are 100 companies in Pipeline . So, if 20% of that converts into sales, our average basket value would be this much... there's no calculation like that. We said, "Hey, there are a lot of great success stories out of 100," but the point your e-book makes is somewhat similar to this.

So, they're especially talking about minimizing those distracting environments . For example, instead of setting really big goals and giving them unrealistic deadlines, they're dividing them into smaller groups. Let's say there should be around 50 people . huh. They don't create more than projects than people. So if there's a project, there will be a designer. There will also be two development projects . Two developers and one designer.

When I say designer, it doesn't necessarily mean they have to design something. So, there could be someone designing the process there, and someone designing the marketing there. They were doing it in groups of three: one designer, two developers, one designer, two developers . And this is like the goal we set, for example, to reach 1 million people, but it has no beginning , no end, no causality, and its feasibility is unclear.

They were preventing these things from happening. For example, let's say it didn't work out, but let's say we said 1st direction and reached 600. Instead of considering this a failure, they're changing the process. So instead of directly changing the goal or something else, they're changing the process. They say, for example, "Okay, so it seems we do n't have anything that will reach 1 million." So they are looking at how to improve this.

So this, like, it's like, we say, "he did something crazy," like we ourselves did something crazy . And so, well, there's no logic in running a company . Well, that's why I really like their attitude there. , I completely agree. By the way, my camera broke for some reason. Ah, now he's back . He, well, I definitely agree. And I think, for example, one of the things we need to get back to is that we really used to do very well.

Because we were small, we were also a bit more focused, and you know how you say they form teams of three and manage people and so on? We were already very good at it from the start because we were already people who did it well . Remember how three people used to handle things like this? Now, for example, when there are 10 people, I think we need to start those divisions again.

So, as we talked about the other day, I've started a project. You asked me why there were only 8 people on the project. really, I think getting that thing into balance is very important. Who are the project managers? Who is handling it? Okay, let other people know what happened, but they don't need to be involved . So, there's no point in including everyone just because they might say something about it—and by "say something," I mean they might contribute something.

And it's evolving into something else. For example, one thing we used to pay attention to, and still try to do now, is trying not to give the impression that we're working the hardest. That's foolishness. They call it stupidity, by the way. Yes. I think they're absolutely right. It's true. Yes. So, if you're boasting about working extremely hard, they say, "Well, that's not really a sign of competence, like you're saying."

So they're saying this is stupid. This guy worked really hard, man. Working very, very hard isn't an issue there. Exactly. For example, in our country, although it's a joke that the opposite is true, there's the saying, "Some people swim, some work." I mean, I think it's very critical. Working 12 hours a day doesn't actually make you a much more valuable person. That's why we do things like this, for example.

For example, every morning right now, everyone writes down their goals for the day, the things they want to accomplish that day, on Slack. The main reason is, well, can you actually accomplish the one, maybe three, tasks you set as your goals in a single day? How much do you divide yourself between adho tasks? To understand this. From where? Because if you've set yourself three task goals and you can't accomplish them within an 8-hour workday, then there's definitely something wrong.

If you need 12 hours, for example, to complete those three tasks or just one task, it means you have a lot of work , a lot of projects, and you're not managing your time effectively. Because a large part of it is actually... noise, not something that will really get you to your goal, not hunger. Understanding it, in my opinion, both takes a burden off your shoulders and really makes you run a little closer to your goal .

Or, they say, there's no need for those things there, like calendar blocks or Tetris- like boxes, or anything like that . And what they're actually arguing is that each communication process carries a certain amount of charge away from or charges the others. Oh, oh, oh, I really liked the interconnectedness. So, for example, if we're talking right now, it drains our battery, it takes a charge from our bodies, but there can be something that charges us, and that could be communication.

For example, right now, it's actually bringing things back as well as taking them away; it's motivating. We're learning things, we're talking about things and so on, but when this communication becomes one-sided, or when it becomes a bit toxic—like, " What did you do? What happened? When will that work be done?"—it becomes toxic, and that kind of communication actually drains your energy. That kind of logic appeals to me a bit.

Because, for example, they apply this in the office as well. For example, they do things like, "meeting," " library rules," and if you want to talk about something, you don't just talk. And... well, they don't even use Slack, they use bans and stuff, instant messaging, meetings, "Hey, check this email urgently, there's this issue urgently," etc. There's absolutely no such approach. If something is urgent, you'd have to assign a slot for it in product management beforehand, or if you need to talk about something, you take your friend and go talk somewhere else.

So, they call it library rules, and honestly, I really liked both of these concepts. So, the fact that this kind of communication drains the battery, and also that people are distracted by instant messaging or conversations— those library rules—I really liked them. So, what do you think about asynchronous communication, brother ? How are your feelings about that? I'm also wondering what it would be like if there was a time difference.

So, for example, this is the solution they came up with, brother. For example, instead of saying something impulsively, write it down in detail. Write it like you're putting a notice on a bulletin board, so that whoever reads it feels it's thoughtfully written, and responds thoughtfully in return. Let him think about it carefully before answering. So, since asynchronous communication has a bit of a logic similar to posting a notice on a bulletin board, I honestly think that's somewhat useful.

But in instant messaging, nobody really listens to anyone else. So now we can clearly see that. So nobody is listening to anyone. Therefore, nobody has any plans for such a time. He has no tolerance either, by the way. That kind of scares me. So, what I want is for synchronized, real- time communication, but when it comes to work or anything else, that's almost impossible right now. You either caught the communication in 10 seconds or you caught it.

You didn't catch it, and it broke . Exactly. For example, I think that's why it depends on... I mean, how can asynchronous communication work? For instance, in our team, we have a half-hour daily discussion in the morning, and we even discuss its impact, its value, and its existence. And on Fridays, we have a " not safe for work" session, which I haven't been able to attend for a while .

Actually, we have very few regular meetings like this. Well, the reason for this is that we also want to conduct a more asynchronous communication. I think it's especially useful in asynchronous communication, particularly in task transfer or when dealing with a problem . As you said, instead of long explanations or short videos, for example, instead of saying " Hey, show me how to do this," someone could say "Is there anyone who can do this?"

And then someone could create a video explaining it, write about it, or share it with graphics. I think this is very healthy for asynchronous communication. I think that in synchronous communication, the point where it becomes a bit more challenging is decision-making, meaning that long discussions in communication where a decision needs to be reached often lead to a lack of resolution in asynchronous communication . I think they need to turn to that, as you said.

So, let's get together very quickly, make our decision, and move on. The more you try to communicate, the more you say, "Let's document this, let's weigh the pros and cons," the more endlessly these communications go on, and before you know it, you've been discussing it for three months. Then that asynchronous discussion faded away. It's vanished like that, and the matter is left hanging in the air. So I think this asynchronous approach makes perfect sense, let's support it, but when it's time to make a decision, let's have a two-minute meetup and talk.

Not even texting . I get to the point where if we talked for 30 seconds, we'd reach a decision and hang up . Therefore, there are instances where I think asynchronous programming doesn't work. Well, on my end, I'm not as asynchronous as they are. Well, I'm not a supporter of it either. Especially in major issues, I would say. What if it were in normal life, for example, you know how we try to make work life a bit more like normal life, but in normal life, asynchronous communication becomes a bit meaningless, because you need to have an instantaneous dialogue.

For example, you're going to ask a cashier something at the supermarket and you need to get an answer from the cashier. Imagine the cashier saying something like this... So, right now I have some work to do, man, I can't answer you. I'll give you a detailed answer to this, or maybe I'll send you a video about it, man. I'll throw a loom at you. You know, there's a real difference between giving and receiving information .

Well, there has to be a balance, but of course, as he himself mentions in his books, nothing is like a rule written in stone. Everything can change. Everything has to change. It's a product, and that's precisely its main starting point. So they're approaching it like a product, so the company needs to take shape, like, "Okay, this was the first version, this will be the second, and these are the things we're planning for the third version."

So, instead of these rigid rules, I think it's really important to have a foundation, a base, to make it stress-free and enjoyable; it's a very ideal situation. So, are you thinking about it? So, how much of this are we adapting, for example, how much of something like Hardal are we adapting, and do you think other companies are aware of something like this? I don't think so, but I do n't know, for example, if there are any, they should write it down during company hours so we can contact them from here.

So, for example, if there's someone who's read a book like this, or it doesn't even have to be this book, but any book, and adapted it to their company and achieved success, then... please let us know. Brother, I think there's a distinction there. Well, we were even accused of this by some DC fans back in the day . So, am I not the one being accused, you're not that...

Well, you're not that... I guess so. Are we being bullied? We were bullied in Bali. Zorbal. There were points where they said, "That's exactly it, man, I think you're not taking it too seriously ." Let's say one or two people, not the company directly, but I think you should try doing this, I know what it is. Who is it? Do something. I know who he is, that guy .

He knows himself very well. Well, what we're actually trying to do is create the first company that suits our lives, both you and I. Well, this is our first time receiving investment. We expanded our team for the first time. The product was released for the first time. There are a lot of firsts for the first time. And what we're trying to do is, actually, every first step could be a crisis.

Let's learn something somehow. Our mentality is to contribute something to ourselves, to the team, to everyone on the team, and to make it a lesson for us all . That's why we actually try to enjoy every moment . For example, right now , we're experiencing many things related to the growth process, and these are very big struggles. But we need to enjoy these things. Because we're unlikely to experience something like this again .

And maybe one day the company will have 100 people, maybe we'll drop to 5. We don't know that either. So, we try to regularly remind ourselves of many of the things in this kind of thing, like "it doesn't have to be crazy at work ." Because it also means breaking certain habits. Now, as a company, you're always in survivalist mode . To break this survivalist mode, you need to push yourself to focus on growth, not just surviving, but actually building things That's why sometimes I think we do a very good job.

Sometimes I think we unintentionally forget things in the heat of the moment, and we constantly try to pull ourselves back . Actually, when it comes to things, when it comes to other companies, of course, we're not the only ones who can do it, the only ones who do it . But... I haven't really seen many people questioning this, or doing this kind of thing... well, things really happen in some teams.

I've also seen attempts to establish a healthy culture within the organization . Or, conversely, there were those who did the exact opposite. I also saw teams pushing forward. So, you know, the best kind of guy is the one who works 12 hours a day, chaos thrives. Some teams said, "It has to be crazy at work." It's entirely up to me, from my point of view . But especially in startups, I think the other type is much, much more common.

Because the concept of a startup is all about survival. These men are saying the exact opposite. So, they're telling me to stop trying to survive, to get out of that mentality . Actually, it's not necessarily about having a startup culture; you can exist there like a small or medium-sized enterprise (SME), and what SMEs and corporate companies do is essentially survival, but their struggles are a little different.

Because we are on a smaller scale, things are a little different for us, but regardless of scale, the calmer we approach the issues we deal with, and the more planned, organized, and professional we are, the better decisions we can make. So, I think the perception from the outside is that these are really cool people, or they're working in a very lively and cheerful way, but then there's this jealousy, like, "Life isn't like that, look, we're surviving," but we didn't open this place to boss people around .

Or, for example, someone could come and bring us tea or coffee, help us get our car out of the parking lot, or pay our toll fee . We're not talking about the boss saying things like, "Pay my social security contributions," but many people are content with this and don't expect anything more, so they disregard the value the company could provide them and, consequently, the value it could offer in their normal lives .

But this is very critical. So, if you 're carrying that stress with you when you go home with your spouse or friends, that's really wrong, but it's something that spreads like a virus . They mention it in the book too . So it's really spreading like a virus. So your stress will affect your employees. An employee's stress affects their family. Well, the stress among those employees reflects on each other.

So why then do we turn into a stress-producing factory ? Therefore, we primarily need to adopt a calm, decision-making, and stress-free lifestyle, which will naturally bring money, happiness , family, and a better life . They fully defend their position as well. And that's really bad, I mean, you know, people getting up at 6 in the morning to go to work, like taking the Beylikdüzü metrobus. Now, we did these things ourselves in the past, but, for example, if there are people among the listeners who are struggling with traffic, etc., they might say something like this to themselves.

See, we already get up at the crack of dawn and barely make it to work on time. When will we ever create such a stress-free environment? But really, first you need to reverse it . First, you need to create such an environment so that other things will naturally follow . We need to reach that level of awareness, to some extent. It might take time. Busy people, look, the end of the month is coming, they're worried, you know, people.

I'll try to cope with these problems a little bit and get out of it. And then there's the fact that, I think, the problems never end . That's the most important thing. So now, I'm putting aside basic life circumstances and problems. Let's put aside health, the struggle for survival, and all that else . Now, if we take Hardal as an example, even when we were making $50,000, or let's say $5,000, or even just $5,000 in monthly revenue, we still had a lot of problems.

Even today, we still have a lot of problems. Everything went well. Let's say it reaches a point where Hardal is generating $1 million in revenue per month . We'll still have a lot of problems. So that's why you can't get out of it, and as you said, well, that's just how humans are, so they influence each other so much. For example, this morning you did this to me, I wrote to you asking if we were doing a podcast or something, and you said, "I'm not in the mood at all," and so on.

For example, even that joke of mine... well, it was a really bad joke, by the way. And right away, for example, he... he did that to me. oh, what happened? Did something happen? and so on... for example, even something that doesn't exist can drag me down immediately. Overcoming that, in my opinion, is the hardest part of the job. So, not being stressed, not being unhappy, not complaining—these are very difficult things.

But the more we manage this, the further you go... I don't know... you're progressing, and I think your goal should be in that direction. That's why I like this book so much. The goal really shouldn't be to reach $1 million or $10 million . Because there's no end to it. And it's such a ridiculous metric; money doesn't measure success or anything like that . But because society, the startup world, investment art, everything is pushing in that direction, being able to step outside of that divide a little bit feels really good, I think.

I hope we can remember these things and constantly remind ourselves of them . I think so too, honestly. Definitely. So, it's good that these things come up from time to time. It's good to get stressed out from time to time. I mean, you know, whether it's meant as a joke or something else, or just because people outside are like, "Oh, they're so sloppy, they're not doing this or that, they're doing this and that ," it's like, it's all irrelevant what they're actually doing.

You could also be a company that manufactures hospital supplies. Whether you're working in a dental supplies company or in the automotive industry, there's still work to be done, and you also have a normal, personal life, and your whole life doesn't have to revolve around it . There's no need to stress about it. You can experience stress in your normal life. I don't know, man, what if a tree falls in the garden, that's what you get stressed about.

Something else will happen, then. Hey brother, by the way, I'm going to say something different, something completely unrelated. I read today that one of the fastest-growing business sectors lately is data center cleaning companies. Especially in America, it's become an incredible industry, man. Companies that only clean data centers have sprung up and they're making a fortune. Exactly. Like, you know, sweeping a data center with a broom, you know what I mean.

You know, like, you know, spraying Cif all over the place to clean the dust off data centers. For example, an incredible new industry has emerged. If your ultimate goal is to make money, there's an incredible opportunity here. Be my guest. "Well," one might say. So, you do n't necessarily need to bother with all that "eyay meya" stuff if that's your main goal. But how much enjoyment you get from it is another matter .

But, but look, for example, I might enjoy this. Did I explain it clearly ? For example, his problems might include this: For example, they might be saying something like this. Guys, how many times have I told you not to reuse the same diaper you've already used? Or, you know, they have their own internal stresses, like, "Should we start sweeping or cleaning there?", but from the outside, it's not just a routine cleaning.

How they do it, how they manage it, I think that's very important. I think those people who bully us will think this when they look at it. Ah, see, they're not using AI. They are cleaning the data center. They say there's no future, nothing like that, but if you do data center cleaning with AI, then that's a multi-million dollar project. I don't know how they'll do it, you know, like those robot vacuum cleaners, maybe something like that, I don't know, it just doesn't come to mind.

Or, with planning and such, we create the most optimal plan using 'e'. Oh, or you know, there's this word-for-word joke, like they 're doing it with the "e" thing, and apparently the "e" is written on the rags. Oh, we're doing it so badly with Eyayla and stuff. Eyay cleaning cloth is very nice. Yes. They're all like that, anyway. Anyway, since we've come across this thing, this book, and we're trying to create a really healthy, stress-free work management system, let's move on to that .

We recommend it to everyone. Unnecessary obsessions with growth are not good things . Don't hurt or upset people unnecessarily. Don't let them upset you either. I'm speaking to everyone from here. Don't upset us. Do n't hurt each other. Well, I think that would also work, honestly, there are suggestions on this matter, there are certain things that everyone has experienced and done. Let's say you have some suggestions there as well.

I'd like to hear it. We did something like this at the company. It was very beneficial for everyone. It would be nice to receive suggestions like, "Kibin really increased my motivation," and so on . We can say that we have tried these so far. Exactly. Are they watching us on YouTube? Are they watching us? It seems like we're watching a few things from time to time, I think.

Thanks to Beyza. Beyza's actions are being monitored because of the short positions she's holding . Yes, they are being monitored. I think we should short Beyza, I mean, we need to buy a short position . Even there, there's a certain level of caution, man, nobody cares. 40 minutes have passed. 40 minutes for repairs? It takes 40 minutes to get someone to a place like this. Yeah, man .

No, I'll say something again, for example, a little shoutout from here, from one of our customers, on the Silk Road side, there's Ertuğrul. For example, one day Ertuğrul said, "Uh, I watch you guys sometimes, and so on, you know, I listen to you while I'm driving in the car," and so on. I was so happy, I don't know, I felt valued. I am happy. So that's why it's happening.

Anyway, we've gone on too long. It was great to get together again like this. Even though we meet every day, this format of meeting has its own special charm . Well said! Thank you, Berkay. thank you. Thank you for your time. And that brings us to the end of this section . Please feel free to leave your comments. Don't forget to subscribe on YouTube! we also had that subscription thing, click and like.

Exactly. So, we hope to see you next week with a new and different episode . Good luck . Bye bye . Yeah.