Remote or office, argued by a team with no office

It's still crackling, by the way. Really ? How? Good morning. Hello. Good morning. Hi. Great. Very good. It 's coming from somewhere, but I can't figure it out. Is he/she coming? Perhaps our listeners won't be offended. I hope our listeners don't get annoyed and switch to other podcasts because this one is picking up every sound right now. Let me put it this way . There is an ult.

Heh. Speak again. How about now? Very good. Talk without moving. Very good. You mustn't move at all. Hey brother, how are you doing first of all? How are you doing? Oh, that's great. I had a wonderful evening. What are you doing? How's it going? Well, I'm fine too. I'm in a good mood. I 'm a little bit... heat tired, but other than that, it's been another amazing month.

So, what month is it? It's July. Isn't it ? Compared to July in previous years, it's a bit warmer. I honestly don't know how people work or what they do. We even added it to the end of the email. Well, so you don't stay under the air conditioner for too long. Exactly. there's something very interesting here . This is somewhat related to the topic we'll be discussing today .

In Spain, people close their offices, especially in August, and for example, the whole office takes two weeks off, and things like that have become so widespread that there are practically no companies working in August. And nobody worked. Holiday. Everyone is on vacation. Can we think of this as a long-term siesta, bro? Yes. And since he's not working at other companies, it's a waste of time, you know, like, sometimes work comes in but you're on vacation.

Everyone's on vacation, so there's no work coming in. If you're not producing anything like that, and it seems even those who were producing are stopping. There are actually a few weeks like this here when nobody works. That's how they solved the problem of controlling the summer heat . So they're not working, in other words . I don't know what kind of method or formula it is, but I hope it works .

Yes. I felt like... Was it a cricket and an ant , or a firefly? Was n't someone resting in the summer and not working in the winter? There was such a thing. He's become something like that. Exactly. The cricket seemed to be in trouble by the end of the day, especially in winter. Yes. When it doesn't work. Yes. In other words, he was just loafing around. Exactly.

I think these are also examples of not working because it's too hot. I don't know. You work slowly, but not working at all, in my opinion, is... well, negligence. But can you say that? If you can say this to the Spanish government, then... well, that would be useful . Let it be useful. They are sensitive about this issue. For example, I learned something recently. For example, here in Barcelona, the government only allows shops to be open on Sundays a limited number of times a year .

So, he's saying that, for example, you can open a maximum of 8 market stalls in a year, so that nobody really works on Sundays and everyone can relax. There's something underlying all of this. It's always about topics like protecting workers' rights. It actually puts a little burden on the consumer . For example, there are things like you want to go to the market but you can't go on Sundays, but the match is there, so the cashier should be able to take her Sunday off too .

Yes. So when you think about it in general, when you think about workers' rights, it's actually a very reasonable thing. So, at least they don't do whatever those aggressive bosses want Yes. But on the other hand, as you said, you also need to consider the consumer side. yes. So, I don't think vacation is that. In Türkiye, for example, they recently changed the holiday schedule for tourism workers from six days of work and one day off to ten days of work and one day off.

This is another, perspective on the matter. Anyway, there are also startups that do that, you know, they work full throttle, the whole public works full throttle. Yes. Yes. His name is... and we were talking about it, right? It's popular in San Francisco, but the original origin of that thing, man, is China. By the way, that model, the 997 or 996, they drive it from 9 am to 9 pm, 6 or 7 days a week, and they keep it going in 2+2+3 cycles or something like that .

It takes about 1.5 months, then it comes back . Well, that's debatable too, man. That's a whole other long topic. Is it healthy or not? But that's not the topic of today. I really like today's topic. Today's topic is my son. Or perhaps we should discuss another episode? So this is a very similar form of what we have today. Yes. Or this is more enjoyable, I mean, we could have started the introduction with something else, but anyway, it's more or less similar .

The topic we want to discuss is remote working, or remote startups. Should we open an office ? Does the e-office have medication? We are indeed running an office, but what kinds of difficulties do we face? I think we can... talk about this. We can continue this discussion next week by agreeing not to talk about it at all . He was very interested, wasn't he? My eyes caught sight of it, and I hope those things aren't bothering you.

I wanted to wear our promotional Meure Camp sponsor t-shirt, but I think it's stained. It's not obvious at all. And you hadn't noticed until you were told. Let me ask you this first. Would you like to go and work in an office like this full-time? For example, if Hardal had an office in Kadıköy, I would really love it . So, one of the things I want most is this, and there are actually many legal justifications for it.

I don't know, there are aspects like the arrival of packages, the delivery documents, and the legal and lawful sides of the matter; there are aspects that serve, or can serve, those legal sides. Personally, my desire is for us to have something like what we see in Netflix series, startup series, or rather, something we need. Our office. So, I mean, I want to come and, you know, spray people with a water gun or something, or like, I want to suddenly walk into a meeting and yell and stuff.

So I imagine an environment where he can do his mischievous things. Would you like that, brother? Honestly, I have mixed feelings about this. Well, on the one hand, I would like to have our own office . On the other hand, there's the feeling that I would have accomplished less work. If we had an office, and you put aside the pros and cons, well, I think there's a lot of wasted time in the office on one hand.

But on the other hand, I think that office, or rather the team spirit, is really valuable in terms of loyalty to the company and resolving communication breakdowns within the team . But it's important to draw those lines carefully. In every office I've worked in so far, being in the office had started to overshadow my daily life. So, I never left the office where I worked at, say, 6 o'clock.

I used to go around 6 or 2, usually for the noon prayer, but I'd arrive around 10 and leave around 3. No, I mean, my arrival time was starting to be moved earlier. For example, if work started at 9, I would gradually arrive at the office around 8:30 or 8:00 . From where? I wanted to get things done before everyone arrived, and my closing time was getting late.

Because I want to be able to work with peace of mind after everyone else has finished their work . There were many scenarios where I suddenly found myself arriving at the office at 8:00 AM and leaving at 8:00 PM . That also points to something inside the office that always reminds me of wasted time and distractions. That's why I have mixed feelings, to be honest. And I believe, by the way, that it will at least boost team communication, that people will be able to understand each other better, because we use a lot of text messaging and written communication, and we don't really know how the other side understands us.

We have to proceed assuming you understand . And this obviously leads to communication breakdowns. Especially with the new generation, because their attention span has decreased, meaning their attention span is shorter, long ideas can be read more easily, misunderstood, and so on . I think being in a physical location can nicely prevent that . but I can understand that feeling too. So, it's like we're going to work less efficiently.

Huh. But I think it's the opposite. So, at the point where we were fueling each other's passion, you know, like, remember the times we worked side-by-side? Yes, absolutely . You know, like, we do this to each other. No, we worked really hard. And you know, we interact with each other in a physical environment . Brother, what are you looking at right now? Which job are you looking for?

What are you doing? Let's get this done first , then we'll see," or something like that. You know, that part where they blindly follow each other can be a bit better. For example, we've only recently started here, and we don't even have an office yet. Some of us are in Ankara, some of us are in Spain, some in Istanbul... for example, with pairworking, we can set time intervals and schedules to work together, and we can all come together and work whenever we want.

Well, this is a bit more efficient, to be honest. This is also necessary. But doing the same thing in a physical environment might have some unit costs, but I don't know how efficient it would be online. I honestly miss it, I want to. the office environment, the office culture, Berkay in the office... but honestly, I don't know how necessary, how essential he is. Well, frankly, that's what I'm thinking, man.

Well, there are two points to consider. I'm not a big fan of working from home. You already know I'm not working from home right now. Every day I go to a coworking space and work from there. The main reason for that, I think, is that the body needs a routine. So, this can be done at home, but I find it very difficult to do it at home .

I get easily distracted. For example, I might suddenly find myself in the kitchen emptying the dishwasher during a meeting or something like that. Or, I might think, "Let me just sweep this area," or "Let me make myself a small meal," and before I know it, I'm just spinning a pan or something. So, establishing that routine feels good. To be able to do that thing. Okay, I'm quitting my job.

What time was it? Did I leave at 3:00 or 4:00? You know, I don't like staying out too late, especially at lunchtime. When I close my laptop, I like the feeling that says, "Okay, I've quit this job, now I can focus on other activities." It's very difficult to do it at home because it never ends there. So it's a case of half work, half life. I think the hardest part is finding the balance .

So I think that's the hardest part of working from home. But on the other hand, I think the reason why the time we spent working together was high-quality and valuable is because it didn't happen every day. So even if we were side-by-side every day, I don't think we could achieve the same level of quality. Because there's something special about being together. We are together right now, and this moment is precious.

I think it's more like, let's talk about topics we can brainstorm about together. Well, there is a difference. I think the same thing, actually; even when we get together every day and feel like we can't achieve the same level of productivity, I think we can still encourage each other. For example, one of us might say, "Hey man, forget it, I don't feel like working right now." Let's go get some fresh air, go for a walk, or do something else.

Something like, "Let's forget about it and just have a coffee ." So I think this could give a better answer, but as I said, the fact that you can't do that morning routine you mentioned at home, maybe we've internalized it a bit because of the pandemic . I mean, companies are only just starting to adapt to using Zoom, and it's been 5 years. Then there's Select, Microsoft Teams, and all that stuff.

So, with things being like this, hybrid shifts have started in the offices, you know, people coming in three days and not coming in two days, and so on. Now those time periods have gradually increased. Well, because there's another side to it. So, the office has certain financial costs . That includes rent, electricity, water, and all the other expenses there, fixed assets. There have been investments made in those areas.

From the table to the chair, to everything else. So, when they are actually supposed to serve the employees, but only provide service in the very short term, then something starts to happen between the bosses. Mikro starts to take over management. So what are you doing right now? Where are you? Where do you work? In fact, banners and other structures dedicated solely to this purpose have even started to emerge.

So, I think, once that cultural balance is established, and as long as it's not too institutionalized, I would honestly prefer an office where the routine is balanced and creativity is fostered . So, that place should be our sanctuary, a place where everyone can come in and discuss all their productive creativity, brainstorm, do our scrambling, make specific decisions, invite clients there, or have our happy harms—it needs to be something like a sanctuary, I think.

When they try to do this online, that's where things really go wrong. Okay, we're handling the work aspect and the culture, but I don't think our online happy hours are enjoyable at all. Our online "not safe for work" times have started to feel very... forced. We used to play hackball one day a week, and then we decided to indulge in some drawing. He stayed like that for a while.

I think that for both work-related and non-work-related activities, the office is a balancing factor. I agree. I think it's like there are two legs on two of them. The work culture has also started to shift very much towards online platforms . So, for example, if you were opening an office today, you'd need to put at least 10 phone booths inside so people can constantly hold online meetings.

That's why there's a really weird vibe in offices now. Half of these people are sitting in tiny rooms in front of screens, giving talks, and then it's like a scene from Star Trek, isn't it ? Everyone's inside, inside the tube. Yes. For example, let's say there are large tables. The large tables are never used. Because clients aren't invited into the office anymore, or maybe you do if you hold a team meeting like this.

In my opinion, that reduces the added value of the office somewhat. He is among those meetings . Because in the old, traditional system, you have a set amount of time you spend in the office, and you might even have two meetings a day . The rest follows a different flow, but in the new system, if you're in the sales team or whatever, customer succession, people are already doing at least 6 meetings a day, which is quite a lot, and you're already doing that normally too; if you're a developer or something, you're actually obligated to do it .

For example, if you work 6 hours a day , you don't spend those 6 hours writing code. You can't even write properly; there's a constant interruption. You're falling apart and you need to stay in touch with someone. That's why, while that arrangement might make sense for those working internally, for those handling external affairs, the office really starts to become a burden. I think I'm a big supporter of that.

And I think online time together will never be able to stop spending time together offline, sorry, offline time together. You can organize as many events as you want, and so on . But here I am again saying the same thing. Versions with limited features are always the most valuable . So if you put a "chat time," a chill time, a happy hour after work every day, then people start living in the office.

I, for example, am on the side that doesn't support him . Yes, it's great to spend time together in the office, but everyone should know when they're going home. Well, it's nice to bring social life and work life closer together like that. I do n't think interlocking them looks good. So, the issue turns into something like this there. Well, that turns into a separate problem. Do you understand?

For example, those hours-long cigarette breaks, conversations, and all that stuff in offices in Türkiye are another side of the coin, of course, but I think finding the right balance is important. It's constant small talk, like, "Let's go for a cigarette," "Let's go for coffee," "My child is late for school this morning," "I need to buy my wife this gift," "What's for lunch?", "What time does the bus leave tonight?"

I can understand that "uh" part now, but there's a problem with online communication: they do n't know when they need to be offline. They don't know when they need to go home from the office, but we might not know when they need to be offline when they're at home . You can just jump into a casual, very quick situation, but if it were office culture or something like that, you'd get dressed, take a shower, eat your meal, drink your coffee, go to the office, go by bike, and so on.

There's a delay of at least half an hour. There is a 20-minute delay. So, it can somewhat stop it, but if you can perhaps adapt the culture of going home while at the office in the opposite way, I think a balance can be established. Something just occurred to me. So, instead of coworking spaces, maybe there should be coappy hen spaces or something like that, because people work in a more organized way .

For example, a bar is a good idea. There is. It makes sense, we're going to go to a lot of places and find something like this, man. If there was just one concept, you could order from a menu and the food would arrive, and so on, what kind of restaurant would we eventually find? I mean, I don't know why nobody else thought of this . Okay then.

Because coreworking spaces are not working. That's why it's not working. The reason it doesn't work is because everyone has already internalized the work culture individually. He already works on his own, whether he turns on his computer or picks up a pen and paper. I think a shared workspace might just increase his focus. It's like people work better in libraries but get a little more distracted at home.

So, like you said, you go to the kitchen, there are dishes to do, you do something or other. But quite the opposite, I mean, while you're already working, you need a space to clear your head, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a bar, really, a place for those small talks, for networking, because 50% of coworking spaces are for networking, and by networking I mean with your own colleagues too.

Yes, indeed. That's why most coworking spaces try to attract attention with things like evening events and whatnot, because yes. Well, as you said, that's why most people go there. Okay, let me ask you something. When comparing offline and online meetings, which one do you prefer to add support for? This can be either external or internal . definitely offline. Hi. From where? How many online meetings do you remember, and how many offline meetings do you remember?

Let me ask you a question . Remember our offline sessions last year? Yes, it's our internal system, but for example, I'm thinking... The meeting you went to was external. Yes. Yes, but less so, that's why I remember it. You can't do that any more because they all have a cost, man. " Get in a taxi, go here, go there," it was a long, drawn-out process . Offline, you know, is more memorable, or perhaps it's something that involves collaborative effort, so maybe sales will increase.

Do you understand? Because here, online, of course, you can enter with the push of a button and exit with the push of a button . So it applies to everyone, and the security of that meeting might be compromised. Well, if something can be given in return, what's the point? But physically, think of it like this: you go there, you look for a parking lot, you find a parking space.

You find the place, take the elevator up, and they serve you tea and coffee. You spend some time there. Maybe the process is longer, you're reaching more people online, but it's online. I think the memorability and significance are much higher offline. I agree. Because I think the performance level could be even higher, by the way. By the way, this meeting could be a client meeting, a sales meeting , or an internal meeting.

I think that part is absolutely true. Because you know each other better now. Yes. Those initial and final chat lines are just small talk, but when you add it all up, it sometimes goes on for half an hour or 40 minutes—20 minutes at the beginning, 20 minutes at the end, and so on. I think a lot of connection is built from those casual tea and coffee chats.

Sometimes meetings have breaks, like going out for a cigarette or something. You know, like, if you did it online, like, everyone's got a GoPro camera, you're on the terrace, and they're like, "Hey, find me a cigarette," and then there's that online thing that came to mind, like those handlebars, you're trying to light a fire with a lighter, but you're holding it somewhere so the wind doesn't blow, and so on.

I think the online thing is definitely bad because of that thing. You just jump straight to the point and then leave, and sometimes the person isn't even paying attention to you. Because she's looking at the screen and getting a lot of messages and stuff . But to be honest, I don't miss that thing at all; it always felt like such a waste of time to me, man.

If you go to a meeting like that, wearing your slippers, yes. I can't put on my slippers. In Istanbul, especially when you get in the car and all that, it's a nightmare, it takes hours, and that's what was killing me. It's already awful, that's the bad part of it. I'm glad it's turned into something like this, but I understand. I think a balance can be found, maybe online too.

I mean, yes, online, that conversation part I mentioned was nice, like, "What did you do? What are you doing?" and so on, and you're putting in effort together . He's kind of nice like that. The person you're walking with is also coming along the same path you're taking. He keeps saying "man, man," I mean, he's doing that. The right person goes to such lengths to be a good person.

He has expectations too. He has his own stressors, too. That also falls under the category of strawberries. He wants something too, you know. So I think a balance can be found. But that doesn't mean we'll go back offline tomorrow . But I genuinely believe that at some point, the office is necessary . So, let's also get involved, you know, to shine . So how are we working right now?

Our company headquarters are currently in America. We have a company based in Türkiye, but... we don't have a physical office there. Everyone is working remotely. Rim is working. So, on certain days of the week, or maybe every two or three months, we get together in Istanbul and work in some coworking spaces and so on . I don't know how effective this is. These are the advantages. We are able to progress on a very global scale.

The disadvantages are, for example, my house is now... It became a document storage area, you know, like, it's all empty. The files are full of things, like those files that have "file" written on them, and there are also eyebrows and other things like that. Yes. Those are n't things that reflect me. It's not about accessories, but unfortunately that's the way it is. Yes. Oh, and by the way, there's something else...

In a previous job I had, the company had a remote office but also a main office, so it was like two separate companies. So, I think there's also this aspect to consider. If we were to open an office somewhere someday, I would want everyone in the company to be there. Yes. Either it's going to be something beyond just a physical return to reality, or I think the idea we're discussing right now is a good one.

So, such an office exists. Those who want to can leave, those who want to can work there. It's not mandatory, but it's like an open door for everyone, a point of interest. So it's not really a hybrid either, actually. I think it's nice to have a place you can just go . If the people who set up the system correctly there, they will go there happily .

So, in a place like Istanbul, the most challenging part is transportation. The time wasted there. But... striking that balance is important. Otherwise, as I said, a separate culture begins to form. The culture created by those in power versus the culture created by the employees . Especially when you evolve into a large organization. That's why it's such a critical topic, especially for startups. so I want us to open it tomorrow.

So, shall we open it later? We really need to have an office . And I want to walk into meetings splashing people with my water gun. Water gun. Alright. Well, maybe Spider-Man or something like that would work too. You know those Spider-Man characters who throw things around and hit walls? Or those things, like gadgets. Yes. Yes. I think so too, I understand what you mean . He should have a slightly more fun-loving spirit.

Alright. Drawing graffiti on a sign or on a wall—I mean, it sounds like I'm twisting the words, but it's not like I'm saying it directly—drawing graffiti on a wall doesn't make the place fun. Exactly. Did I explain it clearly? Or, making the sign say " fun" or "happy hour" doesn't make the place fun. What makes it fun there is... the boss's attitude towards people, or people's attitude towards the boss, the employees' attitudes, etc. So, I don't think you can really provide that online.

Alright. So, do you want a corner office for yourself ? Inside the office, there was this one in front, Berkay, Berkay, could you close the glass door when you leave or something? You're talking about the village headman thing. Village headman's office. The village headman's office is all furnished with desk pads and pens, you know. Exactly. Would you like some water, or something like that? And there's no computer.

Tea. There is no computer on the table. Yes, brother. I want him, I want him, I want him. You know how sometimes you forget things like, "Like you 've forgotten your computer password?" You haven't turned on your computer for so long. He wrote "dusty post" in the corner. It says "Postal Code," but the password is something like 1 2 3, etc., but Hardal 1 2 3 doesn't work.

For example, you call IT, it comes, and if you have a password or something, I don't imagine it going to be like that, where it'll come back to my room and enter the password on my computer. I want a room without a computer and... a fun environment, and at least it's time to put these documents somewhere . Because it's really become documentation, and... it's time to get some shelves.

It just came from that, you know. Should I buy shelving or rent an office? I think renting an office makes more sense. From buying shelves. Exactly. It looks like we'll end up renting an office . Hopefully. I don't know, I'd really like to. We're heading in that direction too. Beautiful. Thanks. Because you expressed your opinions between these... well, dilemmas. thank you. We'll be switching entirely to physical classes tomorrow .

We talked in a way that evoked a certain feeling. Tomorrow we'll shut everything down, rent one physical office, and say we'll be mandatory five days a week or something like that. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Why not, man? We write things like "application office" and so on. The application office is upstairs. Hey man, I actually enjoy working moments. You know, all sorts of server-side processes are done this way.

Yes. Okey. So, see you at the next meetup then. It was a great episode. We almost changed the subject, which we had decided on and discussed just five minutes ago . We were changing it again. Ah, then, hoping to see you next week on the same day and at the same time... see you later. Good luck. Bye bye . Goodbye. Yeah.